Is the Zoe nutrition test worth it? Or Emperor's new clothes?

[hydroxyapatite]

I've read a lot about Zoe nutrition - a much hyped, expensive nutrition package which helps you to regulate blood glucose and blood lipids, and improve your microbiome profile.'

Has anyone done this and found it worth the money? Aren't they really just testing your cholesterol levels and finding out by using a £40 monitor what foods causing a sugar spike after eating? Therefore guiding a better diet?

[Devoutspoken]

I do think that looking after your health is worth it in the long run but I haven't seen this test so not sure what costs are

[Letsrunabath]

Emperors new clothes.

[LadyWithLapdog]

I love their podcasts. I don’t know about the nutrition package. Are you after a good “diet”? The Mediterranean is top again in a number of categories.

[lljkk]

Emperor's new clothes

[Coraline353]

Emperor's New Gillian McKeith. Seems to be a lot of poo analysis involved. I mean, I'm sure it's more scientific than hers was but I'm just not up for catching my poo in a net.

[DazzlePaintedBattlePants]

Emperor’s new clothes. Your body is actually quite good at regulating blood sugar, unless you are diabetic. There’s nothing to suggest that any weight loss is due to anything other than a supportive community, if you fork out for the package, which is just Weightwatchers with better PR. They do suggest eating better quality food, but most diets do that.

One of the related bloggers was seriously suggesting making sure you drink acidic stuff (lemon juice) before every meal as that was supposed to help regulate blood sugar levels. They also say eat your veggies first - well of course that will help, as you’re filling up on good stuff before troughing the calories in pasta/rice/what have you.

All the food swaps they suggest are lower in calories than the original stuff you’re eating.

[hydroxyapatite]

The 'box' contains or leads you to - a poo analysis for gut stuff/what your bacteria is like; there's a 'blood fat' test - which i can only assume is cholesterol testing, like you'd get at your GP, and sugar spikes by wearing a glucose monitor which tracks which foods are compatible/not compatible. You can buy the latter for £40 and have it linked to an app on your phone to see for yourself.

The 'box' costs £300, then you have to pay for a monthly membership which provides ongoing support. Minimum one month £60. But most popular is 4 month membership, £40 a month

[hydroxyapatite]

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

Emperor’s new clothes. Your body is actually quite good at regulating blood sugar, unless you are diabetic. There’s nothing to suggest that any weight loss is due to anything other than a supportive community, if you fork out for the package, which is just Weightwatchers with better PR. They do suggest eating better quality food, but most diets do that.

One of the related bloggers was seriously suggesting making sure you drink acidic stuff (lemon juice) before every meal as that was supposed to help regulate blood sugar levels. They also say eat your veggies first - well of course that will help, as you’re filling up on good stuff before troughing the calories in pasta/rice/what have you.

All the food swaps they suggest are lower in calories than the original stuff you’re eating.

Yes, apple cider vinegar before food and vegetables before the rest of the meal has been spoken about for a while

[lljkk]

Drinking apple cider vinegar was a thing in the 70s/80s. In lots of books/health guides then. I know because I drank a lot in early 80s. Fucked up my teeth badly.

Don't ruin your teeth, if you must consume that stuff, use a straw, only into back of mouth.

[over50andfab]

It looked interesting and I signed up to the waiting list last year. However, when I got to the front and learnt a bit more, it seems like we’re all paying to be part of a massive research study and having a waiting list will make it more desirable.

I’ve no doubt there is some good stuff in there, including the podcasts, and there might be something useful that comes out of participating. However, from what I’ve read, and as someone who makes all my own meals, it would be difficult from the start to log what I eat. Also, does it cater for those of us who already might have good lifestyle measures and might not need to lose weight and just want to check we’re eating all the right foods or is it all about losing weight?

[hydroxyapatite]

I think you can access the podcasts without signing up to the whole schebang? I've listened to a couple

[LadyWithLapdog]

Podcasts are freely available

[MsRinky]

They don't test your cholesterol levels. The blood test around lipids tests how quickly a standardised dose of fats is processed. There is zero focus on weight-loss. It's true that you can buy a glucose meter yourself, but interpreting the results is something else - mine didn't go outside of the set standard range the whole fortnight, but I still have very poor blood-sugar control. It's been useful for me to have actual evidence that advice which has never worked for me is because it just isn't right for me - brown pasta and rice spike me just as badly as white, porridge is basically the same for me as necking pure sugar. I cook almost everything from scratch and have no issues logging - stick the ingredients in a recipe as I go, add number of portions, job done.

It is expensive, no getting away from that. And you could listen to all the podcasts for free and get 80% of the benefit. But I have found it really useful.

[lljkk]

Anyone who has listened to the podcasts, What did you learn?

[LisaLovedUp]

I have completed the Zoe program with all the tests and a month of coaching. I have nothing but praise for it. I joined as there is a family history of heart disease and I wanted to know how my body reacted to fat as well as any predisposition to diabetes.

You've got the wrong ideas about it.

There is no test for cholesterol.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants I think you are misunderstanding what it is about.

It's not really the case that your body can regulate glucose, it's about showing how well your body does this.

So if you are someone who has high blood sugar spikes after eating sugar and those spikes take a long time to go down that means your body is going to suffer from inflammation long term, as high BG means your body will react with inflammation (causing hardening of the arteries for one .)

Also, it's not being marketed as a weight loss program. You've got the wrong idea there. It's no way like Weight Watchers. WW is a load of rubbish and most people just pile it back on.

It's about creating a healthy gut microbiome. This means (for some people )making radical changes to what they eat. It's not about counting calories.

I suggest if you are unsure @hydroxyapatite that you follow Tim Spector on Twitter and watch some of his Youtube videos. There is an excellent new one out with Steve Bartlett interviewing him for 1.5 hours.

Spector is no fool - he's a professor of epidemiology.

[LisaLovedUp]

@lljkk

Anyone who has listened to the podcasts, What did you learn?

Too much to list. Try listening yourself!

[Technonan]

I've found it very useful. Big winner for me was getting more energy. My draining fatigue seems to have been caused by sugar spikes. I've eliminated these and feel loads better. Also, I lost a bit of weight and have now stabilised around where I want to be, without worrying about it too much.

[LavenderHillMob]

For anyone who has an Audible subscription the Dr Joanna podcasts are an easy listen.
Eating lots of veg, olive oil & avoiding processed food is better for your gut than eating crap. Who knew

[lljkk]

I didn't really want to listen bec I assume they drone on a lot about why people should purchase their products. also it's a bit of a sly question (for me) bec you can only learn stuff you didn't already know; maybe I already heard about everything they say. But I am interested in what value others found in their wellbeing podcasts. what knowledge gap the Zoe podcasts fill for others.

maybe I can find a transcript, quickly get the gist...

[lljkk]

Here's a transcript about fats in the diet...
I haven't read anything there I haven't heard elsewhere.
The authors have a lot of interests to declare (but that wasn't new info either, tbf).

I'll look for another one...

[LadyWithLapdog]

I don’t think I’ve learned anything new from the podcasts. I go through phases of listening to this kind of thing (though my current listening is about memory and psychology, following alongside my DD’s school requirements). But it’s in an easy, accessible format, and they are relatively short, so good to reinforce knowledge. They don’t push the paid for programme.

[LisaLovedUp]

@lljkk

I didn't really want to listen bec I assume they drone on a lot about why people should purchase their products. also it's a bit of a sly question (for me) bec you can only learn stuff you didn't already know; maybe I already heard about everything they say. But I am interested in what value others found in their wellbeing podcasts. what knowledge gap the Zoe podcasts fill for others.

maybe I can find a transcript, quickly get the gist...

Maybe you need to have a more open mind?

The podcasts feature a variety of scientists discussing, well....science!

They rarely mention the Zoe package, if at all.

There is a huge amount of information on all aspects of health all basically based on how the microbiome affects all our body and mind.

So one episode might be about sleep, another about anxiety, another about the effects of sugar substitutes and diabetes, how antibiotics destroy the gut microbiome, all based on scientific research, including gut health maximising some drug treatments.

All the guests on the podcasts are doctors or researchers, not only in the UK but worldwide.

What I have found fascinating is that so much of our mental and physical wellbeing is now linked to a health gut.

[FinallyHere]

I signed up, but then I am a bit of a sucker for a new nutrition related 'new approach'. Before I even got my test box, I had devoured everything the team including Tim Spector had published.

My results were no surprise, and not great.

A month or two before my test materials turned up, I had committed to a significant change in the kind of food I eat regularly. I was feeling really well on the new regime so was reluctant to make some of the experiments they suggested. There was no loss of information, because I had already worked out how my body responds these days (over sixty), when my days of carefree consumption of sugar far behind me.

In these circumstances there wasn't much for me to learn. It was though very reassuring to have objective evidence that my changes did indeed suit me. After an initial few days of transition, I have had no trouble maintaining my changes.

Wearing a continuous glucose monitor showed by that the things I am eating avoid the spikes which contribute to that sugar rollercoaster which makes life so miserable for me when I eat sugar and starchy food.

I did adopt their advice that the sweet spot for variety of plant material to eat each week, is thirty different kinds of plant. I found the way the app drips out information very tedious but it might suit anyone who had not already read all their research.

I now include an HbA1c test annually just to reassure myself that the results of my regime are as expected and buy & wear a glucose monitor for a fortnight annually too

So, no I didn't learn but but yes, I would recommend the programme to anyone whose pattern of food consumption could do with an overhaul like to make changes for the better without too much research effort required.

[LisaLovedUp]

@lljkk

Here's a transcript about fats in the diet...
I haven't read anything there I haven't heard elsewhere.
The authors have a lot of interests to declare (but that wasn't new info either, tbf).

I'll look for another one...

I don't understand why it's an issue if you find some podcasts tell you things you know already. Just move on and don't listen.

No one knows what YOU know, so how can anyone here advise on what they have learned (as you could know that already.)

The fats and oils podcast...

There are still millions of people who believe that a low-fat diet is the way to go and that podcast throws light on how a lot of what is now 'believed' may not be the case. It says that many low fat products (eg yoghurt) may be full of artificial sweetener, or real sugar, which is likely to be more harmful than fat.

Hence the advice to eat full fat plain yoghurt, not low-fat/high sugar yoghurt.

You might know this but the diet industry thrives on peddling misconceptions.

[LisaLovedUp]

@lljkk The list of declared interests....

As you know, the work of T Spector is funded by Kings College where he is a professor. A lot of the research that Zoe is based on was done during the Twins research program.

He is paid for this as an academic and as you will know was also funded by the government during Covid to gather stats.

The Zoe company is funded by private equity and TS is a co-partner. The origins of Zoe were a meeting between TS and two data guys from California.
The data geeks presented TS with the option of going into a company together so that the public could benefit from/ add to the research around the microbiome.

The people listed on the 'interests' are either employees of Zoe (privately funded company) or academics, or doctors , working at King's and other universities (and in the NHS) who are doing research into gut health, and the wider implications for this.

These are academic papers, totally legit, and if you are inferring they are simply doing it to 'sell' Zoe, that's not what is going on.

The research was going on for many years all over the world, into the link between chronic disease and gut health, long before Zoe was launched.