Is the Zoe nutrition test worth it? Or Emperor's new clothes?

[hydroxyapatite]

I've read a lot about Zoe nutrition - a much hyped, expensive nutrition package which helps you to regulate blood glucose and blood lipids, and improve your microbiome profile.'

Has anyone done this and found it worth the money? Aren't they really just testing your cholesterol levels and finding out by using a £40 monitor what foods causing a sugar spike after eating? Therefore guiding a better diet?

I did it. Let me summarise:

eat vegetables.
eat beans
eat seeds
eat nuts
eat fruit
eat extra virgin olive oil
reduce bread/pastas
do not eat UPF
reduce sugar
zoe is seriously conflicted about meat/animal protein in the common way

personalised nutrition is a myth. There are true believers - beware of them. They are not critical thinkers.

The latest podcasts do a roundup of advice, in the vein of @Waitingfortulips ’s post.

I think anything that helps people be more healthy is a good thing but I think there is a danger for it to cause anxiety and for ppl to worry unnecessarily. I also think they are making a killing convincing ppl who dont nedd to monitor their blood sugar into thinking they do. For example, blood sugar is meant to spike after eating, going to 11 mmol after eating a pizza doesn't make you at risk of being diabetic.

I'm a type 1 diabetic and wish to God I didn't have to worry about blood sugar and I can't quite understand why ppl who aren't diabetic are worrying so much about what spikes them - maybe it's a novelty for a couple of weeks, quite different depending on CGM to live.

Even with type 1 the consultant advice I have is I should aim to be under 10 mmol 70% of the time therefore spikes are to be expected and even though that means my target is to be over 10 30% of the time, I should be OK. These numbers are obviously way worse than what any non diabetics will see but I'm told if I can achieve that I should minimise risks of complications so I do think there is ppl could unnecessarily worry - you'll know your diabetic when a spike is 25 mmol, even when you've taken insulin but it's slow to react.

If you don't have this horrendous disease, be grateful, eat in moderation but don't be obsessive over going up to 8mmol etc because that's fine.

If you're at risk of T2 obviously you need to be careful but a hba1c test is more important than individual spikes.

This. The diet advice is almost the same for everyone and @Waitingfortulips has summarised it perfectly. The true believers hyperfocus on slight differences in scores for different foods but there's little point to doing so.

If you're someone who needs to be walked through how to eat in accordance with waitingfortulip's list, or if you really feel the need to know whether Zoe advises you to have cheese only once or instead twice a week (the kind of slight difference that's not going to make a huge impact overall) AND you have lots of spare cash then maybe go for it. Otherwise there's no need, and you can work to improve your diet yourself.

Also it's worth saying that there's tons of different things that can cause blood sugar to change not just food. I wouldn't necessarily be cutting out foods because it had spiked me on a couple of occasions- anyone on insulin will tell you the same foods will give you different results, it's not an exact science.

It's taken me years to learn what I can tolerate and when - but as above, there really is no need to cut out certain foods because its causing you to spike to 9 mmol or whatever. That's well within the parameters of what my diabetic consultant with over 30 years experience would say is OK.

It's two weeks of the glucose monitor.

I think you've misread a lot of the info.

You get your own personalised advice. It's not about losing weight, but about improving health.

It's more about your long term health. The kit is a BGM, a poo sample (to show how good or bad your microbiome is,) a blood fat test (to show how efficiently your body clears fat) and the foods that can help improve those (or make them worse.)

(They are also using this 'diet' of 30 plants a week to improve gut health with cancer patients on immunotherapy, world-wide scientific trials, and it can double the chances of successful treatment.)

Also it's worth saying that there's tons of different things that can cause blood sugar to change not just food. I wouldn't necessarily be cutting out foods because it had spiked me on a couple of occasions- anyone on insulin will tell you the same foods will give you different results, it's not an exact science.

That's one of the useful things about trying a CGM - DH is noticing the effects of stress and exercise not just the foods. The response to exercise was to some extent predictable but not entirely.

Complete waste of money. I was really annoyed.

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread which is quite sad because people are criticising the Zoe program and not really understanding some of it.

@Ineedaholidaynowplease The point of the blood glucose monitor is not just to see which foods 'spike your BG, but it's more about how quickly your body clears it, and how efficient your pancreas is at returning the BG level to normal.

Spikes, in someone health, with no metabolic disease, are not so much an issue. But if those spikes stay high for a few hours, rather than returning to normal quickly, that can be a sign that you are heading towards insulin resistance (ie metabolic syndrome= diabetes Type 2,)

The program is not aimed at anyone already with Type 1 Diabetes or even type 2 (unless agreed with their specialist.) These people are excluded from buying it.

The fundamental premise is that the gut microbiome is important in so many diseases, because most disease is caused by inflammation. (This includes many autoimmune conditions and allergies.)

There is a LOT of work going on worldwide (not just the UK) with immunologists looking at the microbiome, running trials, and how it affects development of disease incl cancer.

Did it not give you greater insight into what was good and not so good for you?

If you got scores of 'Excellent' for gut health and blood fats, fair enough, but otherwise?

This. The diet advice is almost the same for everyone and @Waitingfortulipshas summarised it perfectly.

You're missing the point.

The point being that most people in the UK don't even get their 5 a day (only 29% do.) So for one, it's encouraging people to be more aware.

It is still a challenge to get to 30 different plants a week, rather than 25-ish, which I was doing pre-Zoe.

And most people have no idea if they are insulin resistant until they become diabetic. There is a diabetes epidemic.

@Waitingfortulips You forgot to add that there have to be 30 different plants a week, not just more of the same.

I know someone who thinks they eat healthily, but they are only eating about 4 veg- broccoli, peas, carrots, tomatoes (in pasta sauce) , and they think they are healthy because they eat a vat of broccoli.

Overall, I would say it promises a lot for the worried well, but delivers very little. If you really think you have blood sugar or cholesterol issues, get tests from your gp - this wont add anything. The data collection for the zoe project owners will be magnificent, and I'm sure will make them unbelievably wealthy.

This!

If you eat fresh unprocessed foods, including fermented foods and fibre, and if you exercise regularly, your body will most likely be healthy. There's so much free information out there!

And if you have health issues caused by an unhealthy diet or poor lifestyle, then work on improving that first. If you still suffer from blood sugar or cholesterol issues, see your GP.

Zoe is a private company and not a charity. They want to make money. And all of our free samples and huge data will certainly achieve their goals of becoming very profitable.

The test and follow-up diet guidance is excellent. The advice is sensible, but one of the pluses is that it's adapted for your food profile. I got some very useful advice about diet. I don't usually bother with the videos, but I do use the app the scan food when I'm shopping to check the values of pre-prepared food. It's sensible and backed with very recent research.

Additional point: I didn't join to lose wieght, though my friend did. Her weight has gone down to what she wanted and stayed stable; my weight has stayed stable, and I rarely feel hungry between meals.

There's a 'you are what you eat' programme on Netflix at the moment with a Tim Spector introduction if you're interested (they took 22 pairs of twins and gave them different diets)

Zoe is a private company and not a charity.

So?

So is Mumsnet and lots of other things you will be buying into.

You're paying to use Mumsnet on your app or your pc.

No, you're missing the point entirely. Which is that there is no need to sign up for Zoe in order to, for example, eat 30 different plants a week. Eating 30 different plants a week is great for your health, no one is disputing that. But you don't need to pay £££ to find that out. Your friend who only eats the same 4 vegetables doesn't need to sign up for Zoe to find out how to improve her diet. The information is available for free.

Zoe is backed up by the research you mentioned in another post, but if you read about and understand the research you can take the learning from it to improve your health and your microbiome, again without spending hundreds of pounds on Zoe.

The people who are sceptical maybe aren't aware of the Twins Program of research that was conducted over 10 years ago. This was TS's research at King's College, and it's the foundation for Zoe.

Also, TS is not working in isolation.
The science behind this (the microbiome and disease) is being trialled across the world, by hundreds of scientists, (researchers with PhDs, and medical doctors) working in immunology and cancer treatments. The dietary advice is also being advised by organisations supporting people with Rheumatoid Arthritis and similar diseases, that are inflammatory diseases.

If someone doesn't want to pay for Zoe that's absolutely their choice. As for the data- no issue there.

The recommendations for cancer patients undergoing immunotherapy are being suggested in the NHS.

But to decide that something being researched very seriously, to try to improve prevention and treatment of cancer and autoimmune diseases, is 'bollocks' - well...

Personally, I think it's all just a gimmick. And there is something about that Spector guy I really don't trust...

I don't think anyone was suggesting the research itself is bollocks - you've set up a straw man for yourself to argue against, @LisaLovedUp ! We are saying that the personalised benefits from spending hundreds on Zoe are marginal and not worth obsessing over. Reading about the research and following the general advice and guidance is a truly excellent thing to do for one's health, however!

@RokaandRoll Yes, you are right up to a point.

The difference though is that doing Zoe gives someone a starting point. Without knowing how their gut health is already, they don't know how many changes they need to make.

Given most people aren't healthy, shelling out £290 might make them more motivated. It's the same as Weight Watches or Slimming World. If people pay for something, then they tend to follow through. Like paying to go to the gym- because no one HAS to join a gym to get fit. They can buy weights, exercise at home, or run round the park.

Nor do they know how their body handles lipids, or glucose (although you can now buy the Libre2 for a month, for around £40 , last time I checked.)

I don't think anyone was suggesting the research itself is bollocks

Someone said exactly that, today.

Whether they have read the research is not clear.

As before, yes, people can follow the guidance. But if everyone was able to be self motivated, and do things without support, why would be need 'weight loss' clubs, shakes, gyms (costing far more than Zoe) etc etc etc.

It provides people with a) insight and b) motivation.

I know someone who thinks they eat healthily, but they are only eating about 4 veg- broccoli, peas, carrots, tomatoes (in pasta sauce) , and they think they are healthy because they eat a vat of broccoli.

But they don't need to pay ££ on Zoe! They can simply do a little bit of research themselves to realise that they're not eating a very diverse diet.

We all know that we should eat a large variety of fruits and vegetables. And to eat lots fibre and to cut down on sugars and refined carbs! There's simply no need to spend hundreds of £!

In other words, the research and the guidance is freely available to us all.