To ask if my landlord is being unreasonable?

[waveyc]

We live in a private rented property. Last night I was upstairs in the bedroom when I heard the loudest crash and bang. Obviously went to investigate absolutely petrified thinking somebody had bricked our window, to find our glass shower screen had exploded. Glass covering every single surface in the bathroom and it had travelled outside all over the landing carpet. Thankfully our 3 year old DS was nowhere near at the time.

Me and DH spent the best part of an hour cleaning up as best as we could. I was shaken up just because I was so shocked and the noise was so, so loud.

Anyway, I reported it to my letting agent who has told us that the landlord will not be paying for the cost of a replacement and has blamed us for the damage.

For context, just over 12 months ago our oven door also shattered which he did replace. Another freak incident which we just couldn't explain. We have not damaged the shower screen in any way and now we are being told it is our fault and he is suspicious because of the oven door incident. He's said we either pay now or he deducts the money from our deposit at the end of the tenancy agreement

I have no idea if we are being completely unreasonable in saying we do not want to pay for the replacement as it wasn't our fault.

AIBU?

Not a shower panel but I had it happen to my front bedroom window. Just heard a loud pop one night, raced upstairs and the full length window pane outside had shattered. Tiny pieces of glass everywhere. Took weeks to get it all out of the grass and plants. We were lucky the inner pane didn't go too. Glazier said it's not uncommon mentioned something about an imperfection and it's just a matter of time before it blows.

I think your LL is being unreasonable. I get it's suspicious given the oven situation but it's part of taking on a property for rental - stuff breaks and as the LL you need to sort it (and I say that as one)

Quite possibly, still doesn’t make the tenant liable.

Op in that email you haven't mentioned how common spontaneous bursting of tempered glass is - especially ovens & shower screens! This is a CRUCIAL point

No, not at this point it isn’t.

Right now, the important thing is to get the landlord to accept that he is responsible for replacing it regardless of how the damage occurred.

The question of the probability of it being OP’s fault will only be relevant when the landlord tries to deduct the cost of replacing the screen at the end of the tenancy.

If OP keeps trying to explain and evidence why it was not her fault, this plays into the landlord’s hands because it suggests that she only expects him to replace if it wasn’t her fault.

The only slight caveat to this is that if the landlord can be convinced that he’ll end up paying for the repair anyway (as the deposit scheme people will side with OP on the probable cause) he might just bite the bullet and replace now. But if he did, he would be making this decision for the wrong reasons.

I can’t emphasise enough how fundamental it is for landlords to understand that they cannot try to game the deposit system by refusing to repair and forcing the tenant to pay for repairs themselves up front. As au said, there was no way that I could have told my tenant to pay for her own fire damage repairs even though she confesses to me about leaving a candle unattended next to a flammable item draped over a lamp (I am not kidding…).

It’s not common, it happens but it’s clearly rare. To have both your oven and your shower screen spontaneously shatter within a few months of each other is highly unusual and that’s the issue, we aren’t all living with our showers and ovens exploding every few months

the landlord has to pay but clearly as it’s two unusual events so close to one another he now thinks you’re both causing some minor damage by not handling well , which is later causing the glass to shatter.

I warily showered this morning, terrified of the shower screen, because of this thread reminding me of spontaneous glass shattering!

I read this thread 3 days ago and briefly wondered if we should rethink our shower screen before forgetting all about it. Tonight I heard the most terrible crash, like a crack then an explosion, and now I too have a bathroom full of broken glass!

It's literally spread to every corner of the bathroom, so it would have been horrible if any of us had been in there. I'm thinking of switching to a shower curtain for safety!

I own the house (but the previous owner installed the screen!) so I have no idea what to do, but in your case the landlord should definitely fix it... with something safer!

I’m a landlord I would pay for it but I would certainly be wondering how this has happened twice (I’ve only known it to happen once and that was at work)

I also rent myself and I would just cover the cost in this situation.

Sometimes easier to do things for a quieter less stressful life

It's tempered glass and this 'spontaneous shattering' thing does happen. You're unlucky to have had it happen twice relatively close together, seriously bad luck, but not inconceivable.

Tempered glass is annealed - it's heated and then cooled in a way that put's it into a compression state. Imagine the glass is sort of permanently sucking in on itself as though it's under pressure from every direction. This makes it much stronger than regular glass, and when it breaks it does so with much higher energy (as that tension is finally released), and shatters in a 'safe' manner. You can have tiny imperfections in the glass, and for years it's no issue, then one day without any obvious reason or warning, it'll cause the whole thing to shatter.

Because of it's strength, it is almost impossible to break without serious effort. You almost couldn't break it accidentally, or even with moderate abuse.

Here's a good example of just how resilient it is:

I think in your situation I'd just stop pushing the agent/LL. You've informed them, they aren't budging, so I'd just replace it with a curtain and then argue/fight it later on after you've moved out. You've (rightly so) gone on record and denied responsibility for breaking it, not sure they could even attempt to prove that you did.

That video is rather interesting. I note the pieces are actually larger than in your photo. And the force required quite large. I would send this to the letting agent op reiterating it was a fault with the glass and that you will be contacting the council for advice on the matter.

Years ago we had a similar issue with a crack in the bath. DH was showering and the bath just cracked right under his feet. The landlord had it replaced and even told us that the bath was very old. Imagine our shock when he tried to claim our entire deposit as he'd replaced a bath that "we" broke!

I wrote chapter and verse to the DPS in our defence, turns out I didn't need to as it is the landlord's responsibility to prove that it was our fault. They agreed with us immediately and we got our full deposit back.

OP, whatever you do in regards to the current shower screen/curtain situation, I think you've got plenty to back up the fact that this wasn't your fault should it come to a head when you eventually move out.

I was a bit surprised to see that Michael had bare arms and wasn’t wearing safety boots there.

I am a ll. In the past, baths were not made extra tough at the plug hole end but it has been possible to buy them thicker for showering for years. I always put thicker ones in now but they can break after a lot of use and age.

I just can‘t help thinking about that glass hotel pool hanging between the tops of a London hotel

Hi OP - I hope you have had a more positive response from your landlord. A few people advised that you could contact Shelter (a housing charity), or your local council for advice. Just wanted to emphasise these options in case you missed them as it sounds like the landlord is not being reasonable and you may need their help.