To ask if my landlord is being unreasonable?

[waveyc]

We live in a private rented property. Last night I was upstairs in the bedroom when I heard the loudest crash and bang. Obviously went to investigate absolutely petrified thinking somebody had bricked our window, to find our glass shower screen had exploded. Glass covering every single surface in the bathroom and it had travelled outside all over the landing carpet. Thankfully our 3 year old DS was nowhere near at the time.

Me and DH spent the best part of an hour cleaning up as best as we could. I was shaken up just because I was so shocked and the noise was so, so loud.

Anyway, I reported it to my letting agent who has told us that the landlord will not be paying for the cost of a replacement and has blamed us for the damage.

For context, just over 12 months ago our oven door also shattered which he did replace. Another freak incident which we just couldn't explain. We have not damaged the shower screen in any way and now we are being told it is our fault and he is suspicious because of the oven door incident. He's said we either pay now or he deducts the money from our deposit at the end of the tenancy agreement

I have no idea if we are being completely unreasonable in saying we do not want to pay for the replacement as it wasn't our fault.

AIBU?

Landlord here - they absolutely should be paying for this.
I would without hesitation.

All the landlord needs to prove is that it was intact at the start of the contract. He doesn't need to prove how it happened. The fact spontaneous shattering is a thing will be meaningless. OP can't prove that she didn't do it.

The only thing I would observe is that it sounds like you are saying that you do not want a new glass screen for safety reasons. (Rather than because that is the maximum you are prepared to fund yourself up front.) If the landlord capitulated now and said he’d arrange a full replacement, would you still prefer a rod and curtain?

@Catnary Yes, I do feel that would be safer. It's made me very wary of glass ones now

Have you got poltergeists?

@Bestcatmum hope not!

@Catnary I see what you are saying though so maybe I will take that out of the email

OP will not have to prove that she didn’t do it. other way round. Landlord would have to prove that it wasn’t a fault in the item.

Damage deposits only protect landlords agains damage caused by tenants.

If the washing machine in my flat breaks during the tenancy I can’t take the cost out of the deposit at the end unless I can show the the tenants were misusing it in some way. If it is just old and goes kaput, that is a cost for me of running a rental. Same with an old/faulty shower screen.

Do make sure you say you’ll put up a rod and pole if he won’t do anything though, as you do need to show that you are taking care not to let water damage make things worse. It’s just the safety reason that you should omit unless you 100% don’t want a new screen.

Add the link

Email sent..

Try your local Citizens Advice Bureaux or the Shelter helpline.

If you have a quick Google, there are quite a few stories of this happening, and it usually due to installation error.

No one said it's the landlords fault, but it is the landlords responsibility

Latest update..

Letting agent tells us that she will pass on our comments onto the landlord, however she expects that he will not change his stance and she will not report back to us unless he does

Charming! I take back what I said about the agent thinking the landlord in the wrong but not being able to say so outright.

The problem is that they are indeed the landlord’s agent and not acting in your interests. I have pulled my agents up before on rudeness or lack of responsiveness to my tenants, but some people are just arseholes and don’t see the bigger picture.

In your position this would leave a nasty taste in my mouth and I’d be looking to give notice and end the relationship. He’ll have to pay new commission to the agent for finding a new tenant- that will cost more than the replacement screen! (Shame it would benefit the rubbish agent though).

Are you a LL, @ShakespearesBlister ? Because this isn’t true. Since deposits are protected, the LL will need to give the deposit scheme notice that they want to deduct the cost of the missing/replacement screen. The OP can then raise an objection, with their evidence that they notified the LL at the time of the incident, and include references to spontaneous shattering. Then the deposit scheme will almost certainly side with the tenant not the LL. It’s weighted in favour of the tenant, not the LL.

I would reply to say that if you do not hear back from the agent/LL by end of day Monday, you will take that as agreement that LL is happy for you to remove the damaged screen/hinge. State that you will take reasonable steps to prevent damage but cannot guarantee this as you are not experienced in DIY.

I visited friends over Christmas and their bathroom looked like a war zone because this had happened to them the same morning. A work colleague (in another country) also had the exact same issue. Rapid temperature changes basically cause the tempered glass to explode - it's pretty well documented.

I'd take a look at your tenancy agreement and start quoting that - usually they say that "fixtures and fittings" (defined as anything that is supplied with the property, like an oven or shower door) are the responsibility of the landlord. Don't ever withhold rent, but if the landlord still refuses to replace it you can always pay for it yourself and then do a money claim online for the cost of the replacement. Assuming that you're backed up by the wording in the tenancy agreement it'll be open and shut.

Good luck.

Your landlord is a shit. Put up a curtain pole and fight your corner when it comes to deposit return. Do you have it in writing thr landlord saying that the screen was 8 years old? Even if you do get money deducted for it it will not be the full price of a new screen as the old one was part way through its expected life span.

I witnessed the same thing happen once with an oven door once, my flatmate was cleaning it and it literally exploded! Things break sometimes, it's unavoidable. Unfortunately some landlords don't seem to understand this.

This thread just shows how crap renting is for tenants in this country. I think standard Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreements need to make it absolutely clear whose responsibility things are in plain English, with examples to illustrate things. Landlords need to stop hiding behind the threat of taking someone's deposit when something goes wrong. It's clear far too many people are scared to speak up and so end up subsidising their landlords. No one should be able to operate as a letting agent without having passed a minimum standards qualification. Many agents are worse than the crap landlords they represent.

think I'm gonna email back and say if we have not heard anything by the end of the day on Monday then we will assume that the landlord is ok for us to try to remove the hinge and remaining glass, even if it means that further damage could happen in the process 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think shower screens are more usually 6-8mm. Sometimes there can be a manufacturing fault and something like bright sunshine can cause it to fail.

@waveyc make sure you put a strong emphasis on the fact all the stuff you are doing is to “make safe”.

The reality is that providing “proof” of what happened is absolutely irrelevant - the LL has insurance and they will miss the window to claim on it if they aren’t prompt. TDS dispute people will almost certainly side with you especially if you leave the rest of the property in an immaculate state. They are very tenant leaning.

Whatever you do, when you leave take photos of every room/wall/floor/nook and cranny and do a walk through video too. You will need to prove you weren’t lunatic glass smashers and we’re just really unlucky. Be there when they do the inventory.

Re: damage removing hinge. Can you do anything like gaffer tape over anything sharp. Fix it to the best of your ability and touch as little as possible. If you pull a hinge off a wall and a huge chunk comes out then you will likely be charged. Don’t do anything you can’t make pretty for when you leave!

The cost of a new shower screen may well be lower than the excess on the insurance.