To politely ask that SEN is not suggested as a ‘cause’ for every behaviour on here?

[Cuppasoupmonster]

Because it’s panicking mums unnecessarily? I don’t mean where there are multiple ‘symptoms’ or clearly something very atypical. But chatting a lot, not studying for GCSEs hard enough, only having one or two close friends - SEN has been suggested as a reason for all of these lately, without any other pointers or red flags.

There is yet another thread this evening by a mum with a young baby panicking the baby has autism because she demonstrates some very normal baby-like behaviour. I was the same with DD and I really regret the time I wasted worrying rather than just enjoying her, but then everything she did seemed to be a ‘SEN indicator’ on here and I was an anxious first time mum.

AIBU to just ask people to think a bit more carefully before suggesting it, and consider whether it’s really proportionate?

I’ve worded this as sensitively as I can and I hope it will be received as such…

Well 80% of the votes agree with me so what I think can’t be that niche?

This is why I do struggle with the "label" personally.

My child can just be naughty sometimes, like any other 8 year old can, but I find people trying to excuse it or minimize it.

No he's just being naughty, yes he has ADHD, but he's capable of just misbehaving with no relation to the ADHD.

Like being rude/overly sarcastic/stubborn, throwing a toy at me in a strop. Not all this is the ADHD. Him fidgeting, restless, verbal ticks, poor sleep habits, and doing dangerous things without thought is the ADHD which I concede.

But I have slowly learnt there are like 3 camps,

the "everything is the diagnosis"

the "middle ground bit of both"

the "there is no such thing, control your child".

I think those 3 ways of looking at it are spot on @MoscowMules and my post was most definitely position 2.

Why is it valid for somebody to suggest SEN because they have experience of a symptom, yet I have experience of it in somebody who isn’t SEN but my opinion isn’t valid?

You moan about others jumping to conclusions but you have done the same. This is hilarious. 😬 If you didn’t come across as so nasty, I’d feel bad for you embarrassing yourself.

Your nieces difficulties could be down to many things. SENCo and teachers are not qualified to diagnose anything. You really lack knowledge on this subject and your minimising and dismissing nature on your other threads is dreadful.

Er.. you kind of have to have some idea of WHAT you're asking them to be assessed for before they're referred for assessment.

So the people saying shit like "Your nieces difficulties could be down to many things. SENCo and teachers are not qualified to diagnose anything."

and "Also, any SENCo or teacher that says a child has undiagnosed ASD needs sacking." need to shut up with their stupidity.

When you refer a child for assessment you have to do it alongside the way, so you have to justify the reasons you think they may be autistic/dyspraxic/dyslexic/adhd.

No, the Teachers and SENCo can't 'diagnose' it but they CAN suspect it, same as the parent.

I wasn't able to just rock up to the school and demand a referral for no fucking reason.. i literally had to say i think its asd/adhd/dyspraxia for the following XYZ reasons and i'd like him referred for assessment please!

Honestly.. shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.

And an FYI op, saying that somebody is or isn't ASD or SEN makes no linguistic sense. You can't be autism spectrum disorder or be special educational needs.

I think there’s a world of difference between an excited baby flapping its arms and a 7 year old girl who has never spoken to another child, don’t you?

I’m just following the language used on here. Plenty of posters say ‘my child is ASD’.

How many people have seriously tried to get a diagnosis of Autism for a baby flapping their arms?

Or 80% od voters do not have a ND child so doesn't understand the struggle.

You are far more likely to see people use language that makes sense:

My child has ASD
My child has autism
My child is autistic

You can't be ASD in the same way you can't be cancer or be diabetes.

Maybe the occasional person might say my child is ASD but we'll let them off, it's their child. When it's used by somebody who isn't autistic or doesn't have an autistic child themselves, it comes across as them not really engaging properly with the subject. You seem pretty invested in the topic of ASD on MN so please try and use language that makes sense.

Absolutely not unreasonable. I think people sometimes forget that many things associated with ADHD and ASD can be quite common behaviour with people who don't meet the threshold for a diagnosis as well. It's how and how much it affects people it makes the difference.

And, as many traits can overlap through several diagnoses it scares me a bit how people can sound so absolutely sure of themselves about a person they've never met. Saying "Sounds like it could be useful checking this out with a professional," is way different from claiming that it must be this or that.

Because you've jumped down the throat of anybody who mentions it on various threads, including me, who completely recognised the issue the OP in the "chatter" thread was dealing with, which was NOT the same as normal 5 yo chatter, and criticised anybody who mentioned the possibility of SEN.

Now you've come up with a niece with difficulties and have opinions that, according to the way you behave on threads, nobody with an actual SEN child is allowed to have!

SENCo here in a primary school. You’re wrong I’m afraid.

When we refer a child, we never ask for an assessment for anything specific. We are not qualified and that isn’t our place. We are obviously experienced enough and have guidance to know the best service to refer to. We only ever list things we have seen through monitoring/observation as well as any info from parents/carers when making a referral to the appropriate professional and they decide what the child should be assessed for.

I do actually agree with this. However, when you have lived experience and recognise symptoms, I don't see the harm in mentioning it. I would not attempt to diagnose somebody's child on a forum but quite honestly, when my baby was behaving in ways that I had never experienced as a parent, I do wish somebody had said something to me.

I could think of 11-15 children in every class of 30 that would probably get a diagnosis if assessed for dyslexia or ASD or ADHD or dyspraxia or Tourettes

How do you know these children would "probably get a diagnosis" if they were assessed? Do you have intimate knowledge of the assessment process and diagnostic criteria for Autism, ADHD or Tourettes syndrome? If not then you have no idea if their assessment would lead to a diagnosis. You are making assumptions and sweeping generalisations, as on your other threads.

Hi all, thanks for the reports about this thread. We have been through and removed any posts that we felt broke our Talk Guidelines.

Do take a look at our This Is My Child Campaign and consider the challenges many parents of children with disabilities, or who have disabilities themselves, face on a daily basis.

Mumsnet exists to make parent's lives easier and if there's one thing we could all do with, it's some understanding and moral support.

Well 80% of the votes agree with me so what I think can’t be that niche?

You're right there. Sadly ableism and ignorance are not "niche".

im not wrong, i've been through it 3 times with my own son, and EVERY single time i was told they needed to know what for/why.

even after referral and sitting in the office with the people from Occupational Health and CAMH's one of the first questions out of both peoples mouths were "why do you think he needs assessing?" and "What do you think it is, and why?"

oh, and thats through primary school, secondary school via the Specialist Schools SENCo, AND through my own GP... each time i had to give very specific reasons for the referral before it would even be considered. I even had to do with my OWN referrals for assessment via my own mental health team, never mind just my sons.

So please don't tell me i'm 'wrong'. Clearly its done differently in different Healthcare Areas and LA's.

The school will have listened to you of course, but we don’t refer a child for a specific assessment or say we think it’s this or that as that isn’t our role.

Gee, i must have imagined both SENCo's writing on the form "referal for Autism assessment" and "request for ADHD assessment" then.

What they are assessed for will be decided by what is detailed on the referral. Monitoring and observations of teachers, parents and SENCo.

Youre clearly quite angry so I’ll leave it there. As a SENCo, I’m here to refer based on concerns but not to demand a certain assessment.

I work in a school and if we or parents have reason to suspect a child has Autism or ADHD we absolutely do refer children for an Autism assessment, or an ADHD assessment because CAMHS in our locality require that we specify this on their referral paperwork.