To politely ask that SEN is not suggested as a ‘cause’ for every behaviour on here?

[Cuppasoupmonster]

Because it’s panicking mums unnecessarily? I don’t mean where there are multiple ‘symptoms’ or clearly something very atypical. But chatting a lot, not studying for GCSEs hard enough, only having one or two close friends - SEN has been suggested as a reason for all of these lately, without any other pointers or red flags.

There is yet another thread this evening by a mum with a young baby panicking the baby has autism because she demonstrates some very normal baby-like behaviour. I was the same with DD and I really regret the time I wasted worrying rather than just enjoying her, but then everything she did seemed to be a ‘SEN indicator’ on here and I was an anxious first time mum.

AIBU to just ask people to think a bit more carefully before suggesting it, and consider whether it’s really proportionate?

I’ve worded this as sensitively as I can and I hope it will be received as such…

This is actually much the same as I have done with my 15 Yr old too. It's enough for now. My only reservation is that my eldest has struggled at university and is needing a lot of support, and has been able to access some via DSA with a diagnosis, whereas at 15 they were doing ok so it's possible a diagnosis may help later even if it is not needed now. That probably won't be relevant to my 15 yo for unrelated reasons but it's a bit of a worry.

Getting a diagnosis can take a long time and there's a reason for that, if it takes fully trained health professionals several appointments with months or years of input from school and parents then I don't think anyone here can diagnose autism, ADHD or anything basically based on a few lines.

But no-one does diagnose those things.

They tend to say 'It sounds like' or 'it could be' or 'it might be'.

In all the years I've been using MN, I've yet to see someone say "It's definitely" when it comes to this sort of thing.

But it's not half the children having the same SEN. They are all different. Even within the Autism diagnosis there is a huge range of needs, dyslexia is completely different, dyspraxia different again and so on. All of their needs have to be identified if they are to be supported properly. If you ignore these things you end up with children in a MH crises. I've seen it over and over again. It is horrendous to watch it happen.

I do agree though that we could do things that help make life easier for the ND children, diagnosed or otherwise, that would probably benefit all children and not just the ND. Things like not putting children under so much pressure to learn things they just aren't ready to learn. Keeping the environment in school calm and quiet and free of clutter, making the school day predictable and preparing the children well for times when they are doing something they don't normally do, having very clear and fair expectations and consequences and so on and so forth... It is possible then that some of the more borderline children may manage without special support but I'd argue they would still benefit from staff understanding their needs.

I think posters who have children with additional needs are generally pretty clued up on whether it is sensible to say something or not. It is posters who have no experience who are generally the ones who suggest when it isn't sensible.

OP, didn’t you know everyone is an armchair Psychologist on here.

Also if everyone didn’t have SEN or behavioural disorders, who would take responsibility for their actions? No way. We can’t have people taking responsibility for their actions. Check your privilege.

That's an excellent point.

All 3 of my kids have been diagnosed SEN. My daughter was obvious as she was clearly struggling. My younger daughter we picked up early but was less obvious. Then later my son was diagnosed at Uni.

I have 3 children with two different dads and initially I "blamed" the first Dad but when all 3 of my kids have SEN I started realising that it was actually both me and the first Dad that undiagnosed SEN. It was different for us growing up in the 70s and 80s - I just thought I was weird.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that it's not helpful to write everything off as SEN. I do wonder how much of the whole population has undiagnosed SEN.

@thingumybob

"This is actually much the same as I have done with my 15 Yr old too. It's enough for now. My only reservation is that my eldest has struggled at university and is needing a lot of support, and has been able to access some via DSA with a diagnosis, whereas at 15 they were doing ok so it's possible a diagnosis may help later even if it is not needed now. That probably won't be relevant to my 15 yo for unrelated reasons but it's a bit of a worry."

Fortunately/unfortunately (depending on how you view it) in Australia I would likely have to go through private health insurance anyway, so wouldn't be subject to the long Medicare wait times, although there still would be a delay as specialists still have wait times.

He's only in yr10 so still not in the important school years. Year 11 doesn't affect uni offers here (uni offers made after year 12 results are out) and most/large proportion of uni students in Australia stay at home while studying so I would be there to help if needed. (Vast majority go to universities in their capital city).

But if a third of the population are impeded enough to be considered ‘disabled’ then this is a totally unsustainable number, if only because the ‘support’ required on a population level is so vast that it could never be adequately met. If a third of people require that initial GP appointment, an assessment, psychiatry, medication, support workers and specialist help in school, that simply isn’t something that society can sustain for cost and recruitment reasons.

Equally if they don’t require any of those things then it isn’t severe enough to warrant a diagnosis of ‘special needs’; which in my view needs to having meaning beyond ‘at times they can act a little differently to some other peers’, otherwise it’s a little bit meaningless.

But chatting a lot, not studying for GCSEs hard enough, only having one or two close friends

This, along with some other innocuous behaviours that nobody noticed, describes me as a child. I've just been diagnosed with adhd. I thought i was just a shit person all these years. There's nothing wrong with suggesting that someone who struggles with everyday things that other people don't might be ND. women and girls in particular are horrendously underdiagnosed with adhd with exactly the sort of problems you describe. To the outsider they might look like isolated, minor issues but they're not.

I also feel that in my handful of years lurking around MN, ASD has gone from quite a distinctive and recognisable condition that is usually quite apparent from toddler age onwards, to an almost catch-all diagnosis for any person who doesn’t display what you could call ‘extremely typical’ behaviour.

This reverts me back to my original point that is an isolated and fairly unremarkable age-appropriate behaviour is enough for 70% of responses to suggest ‘SEN’ then the bar for diagnosis has got much lower.

Yeah I agree tbh.
as the parent of a severely autistic non verbal toddler with many other issues that makes caring for and managing him an absolute nightmare (I’ve been up since 2 tonight as he’s just screaming and screaming) it really p*sees me off how everyone jumps on every thing here as being autism. I mean fair enough if it’s actually a set of very valid symptoms but that’s rarely the case it’s usually…

’teenage DD has fallen out with her friendship group again and is very upset’ Could be autism have you had her assessed?

‘DS says he no longer enjoys playing X sport in freezing conditions at 6am on a weekend’ Does he struggle socially? Could it be ASD?

I read these and I’m just like COME ON FFS these are really usual standard kids things.

• Compulsive stimming
• serious social development delay
• serious speech delay
• inability to process changes
• massive meltdowns/emotional behaviour totally inappropriate to age.
• intense and repetitive behaviours
• struggling to make eye contact/use non verbal communication
• struggling to interact or engage with peers

^ unless they’re noting at least 2/3 of the above behaviours please god stop jumping on the ‘it’s probably ASD’ bandwagon. Kids are just weird sometimes they go through stages. I have NT kids too and they’re weird, they have off phases but they’re not autistic.

Well my DS has over 2/3 of your list, but I wouldn't call him disabled with autism. He thinks differently and processes things differently (and God help me deal with the monologuing about his current obsession!) and understanding why helps him, but he is able to function happily in the world and while not masking does hold back from people until he trusts them.

Even meeting all the elements of autism I don't think he has them at the severity that others do and don't view him personally as disabled.

Is that the issue? Do people think that a diagnosis of ADHD or ASD automatically equals a disability, regardless of severity?

A lot of children do not require medication and support workers. For example a child who is dyslexic certainly won't get that. They may need different worksheets from the teacher though and come exams they may need a reader/scribe. My eldest was very bright and well behaved at school so didn't need extra support but did need extra time in exams for processing time and did need to have things explained in a certain way and did need staff to understand she wasn't being deliberately difficult when her brain worked in a different way or she saw things in a very black and white way so a little extra patience was needed from them dealing with her.

My middle child is on the SEN register because of health problems. They have had to drop subjects and have a reduced timetable. Yes, a lot of medication too because without it they would die. Nothing to do with neuro diversity though.

I think part of the problem is society thinks SEN = bad. SEN = neurodiverse and the sooner it’s picked up the better for a child. Lots of people who have had major impacts on the world or are very successful have SEN - Greta and Elon are autistic, Richard Branson is dyslexic spring to mind.
Lots of people post all sorts of info it’s up to the Op at the time to decide what is useful to them.
I thought I was neuro typical all my life until in my 50s my daughter showed me an article where we realised I have inattentive adhd and I have now been diagnosed and so have my children. Which is unfort a very common story for women as we are good at masking.

if someone because anxious because a stranger mentions SEN then I think they might also need help with their anxiety.

How long have you been on MN? My eldest is 20 and I can remember these conversations from when she was a baby. In fact thanks to that I suspected autism from when she was a toddler although I didnt try and get her referred until she came home and told me she must be an awful person because she didn't have any friends. It then took 2 years to convince someone to do the referral. I should have done something sooner. As she has got older the autism has become increasingly obvious.

The trouble is people tend to judge "how autistic" (that's not how the spectrum works) someone is by how much they impact on other people around them rather than by what's going on in their heads. Also people conflate learning difficulties with autism. Autistic people can be extremely clever or have severe learning difficulties or anywhere in between. Just like anyone else.

I voted YABU because, although I agree with your observations, people just love to diagnose. I find the same IRL with adults - people are constantly telling me that so-and-so clearly has Asperger’s/Depression/OCD…

I’m afraid I think YABU op. The more awareness there is of these issues the better, especially for women who are frequently diagnosed too late in life. One could argue it is a feminist issue.

Well I personally wouldn't have got a diagnosis if it wasn't having such an impact on my life, which I assume is true for most / all.

Something having an impact on daily life is a disability

YANBU
It’s thrown around on here all the time. Any time there’s a behaviour a poster is having some issues with it’s SEN.

'SEN = neurodiverse'

This is a mumsnet thing. In reality SEN is an umbrella term that covers any child with additional needs in school; learning disabilities, neurodiverse, hearing or vision loss, physical disabilities, dyslexia, and others.

We all see things through our own lens, which is normal. But none of us, unless we are a paediatrician, has in depth knowledge of all of the possible SEN conditions to the extent where we can tell what difficulty a child may or may not have especially without ever meeting them.

“One could argue it is a feminist issue.” 🤦🏼‍♀️

Agreed.

I've had this exact thought myself and I have a child diagnosed with autism (a 'mild' or 'high finctioning' type). Some of her issues include being overstimulated around other people, struggling with change of routine, sensory issue re bright lights and echo-y sounds, avertion to certain smells, flavours and textures amounst other things. I had a thought that if we lived in a remote tribe with less stimuli would she have sensory overload there? Is the problem really her brain, or is our culture and lifestyle just too much for her? I suppose for her the diagnosis is just a useful way of communicating that she can't cope with aspects of modern life and therefore needs adaptions and patience, but deep down I didn't actualy think there's anything 'wrong' with her as such. (specifically referring to my own DC. I'm not saying others can't be profoundly impaired in various situations and cultures)

There’s a whole cottage industry on YouTube that does this. “5 signs your baby is autistic” and the behaviours shown are totally normal.