AIBU to take DDs secret second phone away?

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Name changed so as to try not to give DD something else to complain about 😁

Would really appreciate any advice. DD is 14, since she turned 12 she's been difficult, argumentative and generally unpleasant. Despite this I have tried to stay positive and set firm rules. One non negotiable rule is that they have family link on their phones and phones (and other screens) are handed in at bedtime and not kept in rooms over night.

DD have been trying to avoid this rule for ages, she pretends to be asleep or hides her phone and says she can't find it etc. Last night she hadn't handed in so I went to get it and found she has another phone. I asked her about it today and apparently she bought it because she doesn't think she should have to had her phone in at nights as none of her friends do. She also thinks she should be able to have whatever apps she wants and have no restrictions because she's 14.

I could go on with everything DD currently dislikes but basically it's everything except her three friends. She's not well behaved at school either unfortunately and is currently refusing to do PE or wear shoes and doesn't care if she gets detentions.

Oh so not to drip feed, I feel I have to be a little bit careful as I'm worried she will move in with her biological father otherwise. He was extremely abusive to me but she has never seen that side of him and I have never wanted to tell her as they have a good relationship.

I feel a bit stuck at the moment.

Anyway part of me is hoping IABU and I should give the new phone back as it would be easier, but I don't think I am...

Did think about this actually but I always ask her to be honest, I mean clearly it doesn't work, but if I was lying too (I mean aside from the omissions about her dad) then we'd both be as bad as each other.

Sorry that was in response to @caringcarer

Being honest with her might answer a lot of questions she has under the surface OP.

Her behaviour is trying to communicate something.

At the very least she'll be sensing something doesn't add up, in a big way.

If it were me I would be concerned about child sexual exploitation. She definitely isn't talking to older men on the second phone, is she? I get that she has money to pay for the second phone- but having a second phone and wanting to stay up all night chatting can be a sign that someone older is talking to her online, possibly flattering her and buying her gifts etc in exchange for images etc.

I would definitely want to talk to her school about it, and see if they had any concerns.

Has she ever mentioned anything that suggests she might be chatting to older people online? If she has an app like snapchat you may not be able to see the messages.

Dad of 16yo dd, who has never ever had any phone restrictions whatsoever as I trust her and she has never crossed any boundaries or broken my trust. No concerns ever.

Kids who are micro managed are more likely to rebel and ignore the wishes of parents.

I will be honest, she doesn’t sound very happy. All teens act out to an extent and that is perfectly normal but unhappy teens will go beyond usual teenage rebellion just as your DD seems to be doing (getting into trouble lots at school is a flag and breaking the law definitely is).

I say this because I was similar to her at this age, I also had separated parents and an extremely tempestuous relationship with my Mother (abusive stepfather too). I shoplifted despite having money, skipped school a lot, got detentions when I was there for stupid reasons, generally stopped caring about myself very much, started breaking curfews and other rules my Mum had at home, got countless body piercings without her permission etc. I did it because I was utterly miserable and felt like nobody was listening to me so I was simply trying to grab attention, hoping someone would help me.

Sounds like your DD is similarly crying out for help. She doesn’t mean to be a dick, promise. She needs you to lovebomb her sometimes and let her know how valued she is. I’d also have words with the school about any possible help they may have, mentors or something? She needs someone impartial to vent to.

Also a separated parent- I couldn't (and won't) make parenting decisions based on the potential threat they move in with the other parent- if there are expectations at our house, they need to be followed. She broke your rule and was sneaky- that does deserve a punishment. She's disruptive at school. You need to start implementing rules and punishments, otherwise nothing is going to change. Maybe she does go to her dads- it's always a risk. But she also knows she can always come back.

Both phones in microwave for 30 seconds, sorted.

OP, you need to change your parenting style. What you're doing right now, regardless of intentions, is driving your daughter away. She would rather chill at others homes all the time than be at yours.
Look from her perspective; she hates school so is spending 6 hours every day doing something she doesn't like and will be getting negative feedback for her behaviour. Is she then coming home to more negative feedback? It's easy to think "well that's her fault" but I don't believe her behaviour is all within her control. There's something else going on here OP and I wouldn't underestimate the impact of an abusive relationship on a growing girl, whether acknowledged verbally or not.
I think she would benefit from therapy. She is unlikely to open up to you at this point because of her age and the relationship you have atm

Can't really help you, but we're having very similar problems here with 14 yo and phones. We have the same rules here. It is an on-going headache.

My only suggestion is you talk to her dad and come to an agreement about phone usage. If you have to compromise a little and be a little more lenient with phone usage so you can get a consistent policy, might be worth it. Consistency across the 2 households is absolutely key, otherwise you're expecting the kid to adjust constantly and you're going to be constantly facing battles because she never has a chance to get used to it because she's constantly switching regimes when she switches houses.

You say that like we adults have all developed the self control to self regulate our phone usage. I know I certainly haven't and my DH even more so. I don't lack self control usually, but phones...well they're very addictive. I mean look at the people saying how much self-control their kids have, but who are themselves spending vast amounts of time arguing with complete strangers over how much phone time their kids should have...it would seem your kids have more self control than you.

Well you have four years to turn this around. When she is 18 she can legally do what she wants.
My parents were stifling & over protective. I lied all the time about what I was doing. This is before mobile phones were in use. It sounds as if she has an uneasy life with your ex & yourself. Counselling probably would help, if she will go. From my own perspective the more you fight her the more hate she will feel for you.

^^ this 100%

How exactly is it being paid for?