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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to take DDs secret second phone away?

114 replies

PineappleRightsideup · 19/01/2023 19:03

Name changed so as to try not to give DD something else to complain about 😁

Would really appreciate any advice. DD is 14, since she turned 12 she's been difficult, argumentative and generally unpleasant. Despite this I have tried to stay positive and set firm rules. One non negotiable rule is that they have family link on their phones and phones (and other screens) are handed in at bedtime and not kept in rooms over night.

DD have been trying to avoid this rule for ages, she pretends to be asleep or hides her phone and says she can't find it etc. Last night she hadn't handed in so I went to get it and found she has another phone. I asked her about it today and apparently she bought it because she doesn't think she should have to had her phone in at nights as none of her friends do. She also thinks she should be able to have whatever apps she wants and have no restrictions because she's 14.

I could go on with everything DD currently dislikes but basically it's everything except her three friends. She's not well behaved at school either unfortunately and is currently refusing to do PE or wear shoes and doesn't care if she gets detentions.

Oh so not to drip feed, I feel I have to be a little bit careful as I'm worried she will move in with her biological father otherwise. He was extremely abusive to me but she has never seen that side of him and I have never wanted to tell her as they have a good relationship.

I feel a bit stuck at the moment.

Anyway part of me is hoping IABU and I should give the new phone back as it would be easier, but I don't think I am...

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 09:34

andwhy · 20/01/2023 08:57

Onnabugeisha - what a load of rubbish. A 14 year old is still a child! You are seriously under parenting if you think a 14 year old child should have completely free access to anything online at any time of day!

We were a phones downstairs household at that age. Now 17 and 18 and phones still go downstairs on school nights; I don't insist anymore but they are just happy with the arrangement.

No, I’m not “under parenting”. Lol.
My youngest is 18. So that bit is done.
Oh and it’s my DCs teaching their friends how to be safe online because their friends had parents who didn’t teach them anything but decided to go down the route espoused here of taking phones away, tracking, monitoring, barring, and being adversarial about it. You can’t protect your children forever. It takes years to hone the skills to be safe online. If you’re not going to start at 14, when will you start? Or do you not know any skills yourself and are just hoping your 18yo will have a friend that can teach them?

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 09:42

GelPens1 · 20/01/2023 08:33

@PineappleRightsideup What exactly is this ‘family lock’ on her phone? What do you monitor? I don’t like the idea of tracking someone’s location. She probably feels stifled by the control and not trusted to be independent, which is probably why she’s sneaky, lies to you, and gets in trouble in and out of school. You need to look into why her behaviour has changed. Could be county lines, other forms of grooming (would explain the money too), abuse etc. She is also old enough to know why you divorced her dad.

@GelPens1
Op says in her first post that the Family Link app is non negotiable. This is a Google app that is used to:

  • set screen times- as in phone locks if they have gone over a screen time limit or if it’s a certain time of day
  • block websites
  • block apps
  • filter Google searches
  • track and limit time spent by app on the phone
  • track location
  • monitor and track all internet history
  • sends reports to the parent showing to the minute how much time spent on each app or website on their phone
  • sends alert for any new contact added to phone

OP then said I was making up a narrative listing all this, but refused to answer why this app is nonnegotiable to be on her DCs phones if she’s not using it. 🤷‍♀️

Fulbe · 20/01/2023 10:01

It sounds as if there's more to this than just the second phone. Your relationship sounds pretty tense. Is there any way you could have some family therapy to mend bridges?

Wishiwasatsoftplay · 20/01/2023 10:01

PineappleRightsideup · 19/01/2023 19:26

Thanks everyone else, won't quote you all directly as will be massive. I hadn't considered County lines at all but will now. She is a liar and does steal and genuinely seems quite callous at the moment so it's certainly not beyond her sadly. I will double check she was telling the truth when she said she brought it too. Thank you

This is an odd reaction to the threat of county lines.
if this is the reason for the phone it won’t be because she is a liar or callous. But because she is a vulnerable child being exploited.
I can’t help but feel you think quite badly of her- teens are hard work, but they know when they are disdained will behave as if they dont care.

the shoplifting and second phone are signs she is vulnerable- and if you do think county lines, you will not be able to ‘discipline’ your way out of this, she will need some serious love bombing to trust you over the gangs.

andwhy · 20/01/2023 10:10

You are right I can't protect my children for ever, but I could still give it a good go at 14!

Checking phones and teaching are not mutually exclusive.

At 14 I believe no child needs to be communicating with their friends online through the night; or doing anything else on line for that matter. So, phones downstairs!
And checking content I think is important occasionally, especially as in this case where it is believed there maybe issues.

I am sure my teens friends are teaching them stuff, and mine are teaching others stuff and I am trying to teach them too. Let's all help each other and try and keep phones and phone usage safe and healthy.

So I stand by my point that this kind of parenting isn't to quote you 'disrespectful' it is parenting.

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 10:43

andwhy · 20/01/2023 10:10

You are right I can't protect my children for ever, but I could still give it a good go at 14!

Checking phones and teaching are not mutually exclusive.

At 14 I believe no child needs to be communicating with their friends online through the night; or doing anything else on line for that matter. So, phones downstairs!
And checking content I think is important occasionally, especially as in this case where it is believed there maybe issues.

I am sure my teens friends are teaching them stuff, and mine are teaching others stuff and I am trying to teach them too. Let's all help each other and try and keep phones and phone usage safe and healthy.

So I stand by my point that this kind of parenting isn't to quote you 'disrespectful' it is parenting.

To be accurate, I said the OPs specific style of parenting is disrespectful of privacy mostly based on the Family Link app which is far more extreme than your style of “checking content occasionally”.

I dont agree with phones downstairs for teenagers because 14 is old enough to learn to self-regulate. I think it’s actually quite sad that your 17/18 yos can’t self-regulate phone use yet and you still have the phones downstairs rule for them too. Ones an adult actually and that brings up interesting questions in regards to consent and controlling relationships.

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 10:49

Wishiwasatsoftplay · 20/01/2023 10:01

This is an odd reaction to the threat of county lines.
if this is the reason for the phone it won’t be because she is a liar or callous. But because she is a vulnerable child being exploited.
I can’t help but feel you think quite badly of her- teens are hard work, but they know when they are disdained will behave as if they dont care.

the shoplifting and second phone are signs she is vulnerable- and if you do think county lines, you will not be able to ‘discipline’ your way out of this, she will need some serious love bombing to trust you over the gangs.

Show quote history

I agree @Wishiwasatsoftplay

JanglyBeads · 20/01/2023 11:00

Olive19741205 · 20/01/2023 01:00

"Oh so not to drip feed, I feel I have to be a little bit careful as I'm worried she will move in with her biological father otherwise. He was extremely abusive to me but she has never seen that side of him and I have never wanted to tell her as they have a good relationship."

I will never for the life of me understand why some women protect their piece of shit exs to their children. What good does it do? But anyway, no you're not BU, I would take both phones away OP.

Then maybe you've never been told by a lawyer or social worker that if you "bad mouth" the children's father to them then you risk losing them to him completely, @Olive19741205.

mincedtart · 20/01/2023 11:50

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 10:43

To be accurate, I said the OPs specific style of parenting is disrespectful of privacy mostly based on the Family Link app which is far more extreme than your style of “checking content occasionally”.

I dont agree with phones downstairs for teenagers because 14 is old enough to learn to self-regulate. I think it’s actually quite sad that your 17/18 yos can’t self-regulate phone use yet and you still have the phones downstairs rule for them too. Ones an adult actually and that brings up interesting questions in regards to consent and controlling relationships.

Show quote history

Agree. I had a phone to myself from the age of 13 and yes, I stayed up late to chat to my friends and my boyfriend - so did everyone I knew. But that’s the worst it got. Can’t imagine how I’d feel if my parents had been stalking my online behaviour and controlling my phone access by that age. I’d probably have rebelled a lot more.

AllTheOtherNamesWereTaken · 20/01/2023 12:11

My mum used to take my phone away at night, it really annoyed me at about 14 years old. I would take my SIM card out and put it into my old phone to use! In my day it was totally harmless because I'd just be texting my boyfriend or friends.
Is consider letting her have her regular phone with the restrictions on and if she's tired from being up too late in it that's her fault. Kids always find a way of sneaking round, if you keep the new phone she'll be so angry and probably just buy another one when she can

AdamRyan · 20/01/2023 12:15

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 10:43

To be accurate, I said the OPs specific style of parenting is disrespectful of privacy mostly based on the Family Link app which is far more extreme than your style of “checking content occasionally”.

I dont agree with phones downstairs for teenagers because 14 is old enough to learn to self-regulate. I think it’s actually quite sad that your 17/18 yos can’t self-regulate phone use yet and you still have the phones downstairs rule for them too. Ones an adult actually and that brings up interesting questions in regards to consent and controlling relationships.

Show quote history

Family link is the only way you can apply a "screen time" setting to android phones, unlike on iphone.

It's not some kind of spy app - the child knows you have it, you can't see the content of what they are doing, just time spent.

I like it as I can remotely block access to phones which is an extremely powerful consequence to backchat etc.

Chickenly · 20/01/2023 13:04

I was a teacher and most students have a second phone if their parents have oversight of their device. Literally, the minority only have one phone.

fUNNYfACE36 · 20/01/2023 13:06

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 09:34

No, I’m not “under parenting”. Lol.
My youngest is 18. So that bit is done.
Oh and it’s my DCs teaching their friends how to be safe online because their friends had parents who didn’t teach them anything but decided to go down the route espoused here of taking phones away, tracking, monitoring, barring, and being adversarial about it. You can’t protect your children forever. It takes years to hone the skills to be safe online. If you’re not going to start at 14, when will you start? Or do you not know any skills yourself and are just hoping your 18yo will have a friend that can teach them?

Show quote history

They teach online safety to death in schools.The kids aren't relying on your daughters to teach them.You are using that bullshit to try an justify your overcontrol and infantilisation of your daughters

andwhy · 20/01/2023 13:09

If you read properly before jumping to conclusions I said 'I don't insist anymore' they chose to leave phones down stairs on school nights. Sometimes, so do I. I've no idea why you think that brings up a question with regard to 'consent and controlling relationships'

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 13:12

fUNNYfACE36 · 20/01/2023 13:06

They teach online safety to death in schools.The kids aren't relying on your daughters to teach them.You are using that bullshit to try an justify your overcontrol and infantilisation of your daughters

Show quote history

The school lessons on online safety are short on technical skills like geo stripping.

Overcontrol and infantilisation? I think you have me mixed up with someone else.

fUNNYfACE36 · 20/01/2023 13:13

andwhy · 20/01/2023 13:09

If you read properly before jumping to conclusions I said 'I don't insist anymore' they chose to leave phones down stairs on school nights. Sometimes, so do I. I've no idea why you think that brings up a question with regard to 'consent and controlling relationships'

I can read thank you, but you have adult children who feel unable to self regulate and still give their phones to mummy at bedtime

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 13:15

andwhy · 20/01/2023 13:09

If you read properly before jumping to conclusions I said 'I don't insist anymore' they chose to leave phones down stairs on school nights. Sometimes, so do I. I've no idea why you think that brings up a question with regard to 'consent and controlling relationships'

This is what you posted
Now 17 and 18 and phones still go downstairs on school nights; I don't insist anymore but they are just happy with the arrangement.

Im not sure they really are as happy as you think they are…it sounds more like they’ve been conditioned to do it and know there’s no point fighting your system.

Chubbernut · 20/01/2023 13:16

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 13:15

This is what you posted
Now 17 and 18 and phones still go downstairs on school nights; I don't insist anymore but they are just happy with the arrangement.

Im not sure they really are as happy as you think they are…it sounds more like they’ve been conditioned to do it and know there’s no point fighting your system.

Show quote history

I’d guarantee that they have second phones…

andwhy · 20/01/2023 13:17

They don't give their phones to me, they simply put them on charge downstairs before they go to bed. Not sure why you are having such a problem with that, their choice. But, it wasn't at 14!

andwhy · 20/01/2023 13:20

No I'm pretty sure they don't, they take their phones up with them at weekends, holidays because they want to use them in bed. But term time they want to sleep, so no need for a phone..? I do the same. It's not that unusual, different to you maybe, but it's okay to be different.

fUNNYfACE36 · 20/01/2023 13:21

andwhy · 20/01/2023 13:17

They don't give their phones to me, they simply put them on charge downstairs before they go to bed. Not sure why you are having such a problem with that, their choice. But, it wasn't at 14!

Why do they leave them downstairs? Because you have not let them develop the self control to self regulate.

andwhy · 20/01/2023 13:23

They go to bed at whatever time they chose, so I'm not sure where the ability to self regulate comes in. When they are ready to sleep, they put their phones on charge and go to bed. You are making an issue where there isn't one.

Emmamoo89 · 20/01/2023 13:26

Definitely take it off her

CitizenofMoronia · 20/01/2023 14:01

Just block the second phone on your router, if shes not got a sim she must be using the wifi,

Original poster
PineappleRightsideup · 20/01/2023 18:58

Honestly there's been times when I have thought why not just tell her about her father but to her he's an entirely different person and not harmful other than spoiling her. I feel it would damage her possibly irreversiblly to know, she genuinely thinks we are friends because I've never said anything bad about him and am always put and friendly... In fact he also seems to think we're friends and has rewritten history. I haven't bit whatever it takes for DD to feel secure and loved and I don't have to deal with him forever, it gets less and less all the time. It is shit because I hate him and forcing a smile on my face will never be easy but what about parenting is 😁

OP posts: