AIBU to take DDs secret second phone away?

[PineappleRightsideup]

Name changed so as to try not to give DD something else to complain about 😁

Would really appreciate any advice. DD is 14, since she turned 12 she's been difficult, argumentative and generally unpleasant. Despite this I have tried to stay positive and set firm rules. One non negotiable rule is that they have family link on their phones and phones (and other screens) are handed in at bedtime and not kept in rooms over night.

DD have been trying to avoid this rule for ages, she pretends to be asleep or hides her phone and says she can't find it etc. Last night she hadn't handed in so I went to get it and found she has another phone. I asked her about it today and apparently she bought it because she doesn't think she should have to had her phone in at nights as none of her friends do. She also thinks she should be able to have whatever apps she wants and have no restrictions because she's 14.

I could go on with everything DD currently dislikes but basically it's everything except her three friends. She's not well behaved at school either unfortunately and is currently refusing to do PE or wear shoes and doesn't care if she gets detentions.

Oh so not to drip feed, I feel I have to be a little bit careful as I'm worried she will move in with her biological father otherwise. He was extremely abusive to me but she has never seen that side of him and I have never wanted to tell her as they have a good relationship.

I feel a bit stuck at the moment.

Anyway part of me is hoping IABU and I should give the new phone back as it would be easier, but I don't think I am...

I don’t want to panic you but a second phone is a major safeguarding red flag we get told about in school. Can be a sign of grooming or county lines. Please seek advice from school on this

This is bigger issues than the phone ultimately. Also don’t throw it away. You didn’t pay for it but it or the registered owner of it. That would be theft she may be a child but that’s her personal possession that she has hopefully purchased not stolen. Confiscation is fine but binning or destroying not.

She needs to speak to someone so I would involve the school also don’t feather coat issues with dad be suitably honest.

Honestly as well during school holidays I’m not fussed what time my teen leaves his pit it’s his holiday from school his break. Unless we have plans to get up and be somewhere for if he wanted to lounge in bed watching YouTube that’s on him.

This. Be vigilant.

The reality is that, if a teenager feels that their phones are too closely monitored, they simply buy a second phone. DS told me that years ago.

Not saying don't monitor, but it is the easiest thing in the world for them to get around, so I think parents are fighting a losing battle with this one.

Check in with the school to see if there is any change in behaviour there. As others have said, a second phone is a big red flag for CSE / grooming etc.

Has her friendship group changed? Does she have unexplained money? Is she secretive about her whereabouts?

What are county lines?

Criminal exploitation? When children znd vulnerable people are trafficked for the purposes of supplying drugs 'across county lines', although criminal exploitation and trafficking also happens in Borough too with the victim moving, minding or supplying drugs in their local area.

I'd want some more details about rhe second phone...if she bought it, who from, how much for, why didn't they need it? If online can you see the ad, if off a friend would their mum confirm it? Etc

Exactly
Much more likely than county lines

Yep. All my DCs’ friends had secret phones and SM accounts because their parents had no respect for their privacy and had them wrapped in cotton wool.

This is very common, and her attitude of disrespect is only mirroring what you show her.

Genuinely interested in knowing how I'm showing her disrespect. Really not wanting a drama, just curious, I feel like I saw yes to everything unless there's a good reason to say no.

Thanks everyone for all your replies, have read them all and will definitely taken everything on board. I had dd unlock the phone on front of me and we went through it together and I explained why I was concerned. There was nothing on there I wouldn't have approved except TikTok and the dubious fan fic. Also it doesn't have a sim which was a bit of a relief.

I think Saturdaynoon is correct and she has just got it so she cam have an unmonitored phone. She basically doesn't feel she should have to follow rules, including the schools and thinks we're all unreasonable. She then did say she'd just leave and I did snap and say well you can't go to your dad's because he does drugs and I'll call the police. Not my finest moment but she said she wouldn't want to live there anyway so that was something.

I can't tell her about the abuse. He is an incredibly charming and manipulative person and he absolutely would do everything he could to ensure she never spoke to me again if I did. I left when she was three months old when he beat me because he didn't like the sound of her drinking milk. I then refused to allow overnights til she could speak. She sees him sporadically now but when she does she's very much spoilt by him and her step mum and has no rules there.

I think that's answered all the questions, oh re her whereabouts, she's not secretive but is out a lot. Her friends all seem to be home bodies though so she just seems to sit round theirs.

You do not respect her privacy.
You use family link to filter her search results, to track her location, to track all her internet activity, to disable when she can and cannot use apps.
Shes not allowed a means to communicate with friends in the evenings, because she has to hand her phone in ‘at bedtime’.
You obviously go through her phone.

That is disrespect. She is 14…when exactly are you going to teach her online safety versus keeping her wrapped in cotton wool? When exactly is she going to learn how to self-regulate phone use if you’re keeping her phone off her past bedtime every night—-when she’s 18? At what age do you think she has any right to privacy?

I agree with most of this. I do agree with the odd checking of the phones considering they are still children and could be hiding something serious like bullying or being exploited in some way. But I agree with the rest.

😂 Sorry but no. I don't monitor her Internet activity, read her messages or so many things. Love the way you've constructed a whole narrative from what Ive said though. It's brilliant and interesting. I actually have an 18 year old as well strangely no the same rules do not apply. Anyway thanks for genuinely making me giggle this evening. I needed that.

I haven’t constructed a narrative, I’ve listed off what the family link app does and which you said is a requirement for your DD to have on her phone. If you’re not using it for that, then why is it on her phone?

One non negotiable rule is that they have family link on their phones

Why would it be non negotiable to have an app that you do not even use?

you can access anything without a sim op as long as you have wifi

i reckon shes bought it just to make you think she wasnt on the phone all night and abiding by your rules

i dont blame you its not good to be be doing screentime 24/7 no wonder shes moody her sleep must be all over the place

I'm sorry Onnabueisha but I won't be reading that because your other post genuinely made me smile and I feel pretry happy and relaxed now but not sure the post above will add to that as I'm assuming you don't agree that you've blown things way up 😁

I'd be very very surprised if she didn't already realise that he's manipulative OP. If not consciously, then subconsciously.

You haven't answered my question as to what school are doing and whether they know why her parents are separated. Well done for leaving him when she was so little, by the way.

It really is, added to which she uses the money her dad gives her to live on a diet of chocolate and coffee from Costa (sometimes I think she has more disposable income than me!) so none of these things help her mood. Haven't decided what to do about the second phone yet. I agree with a PP it's her property so I can't get rid of it, but she is grounded and I've taken it away temporarily for getting it in the first place. Told her we will talk about what to do after that.

Might let her have it back on the proviso she hands it in, and not make her have family link, it was becoming less relevant anyway as she got older... But I might do as another poster suggested and get a better modem so I can see what's using my Internet and when 😅

Why do you think it's funny OP? Genuine question?

The school don't seem to be doing anything re her rule breaking. She has a lot of detentions but honestly they have a lot of children with behavioural issues so she isn't a big problem for them. More annoying I think.

Her dad has never been involved with any schools, and doesn't speak to them or come to any events, my husband does all that so I'm not even sure the school has realised. I have never spoken to them about him either as I he is not listed as a contact etc. She calls my husband dad and only sees her biological dad when she wants to now.

I did think she had realised some things about him as she got older but lately I'm not so sure she seems to like him more. Although it was just Christmas so she did get spoilt so perhaps it'll wear off.

Thank you re leaving him, it wasn't quick enough though, it was the same story as so many people and I stayed and stayed and made excuses. I feel ashamed of myself to be honest.

It's just I said so little in comparison to so much being assumed. Like the poster was desperate to have a rant and this was handy. It tickles me a bit, I can't really explain why. It's been a long day though so I'll take joy where I find it 😁

Are you sure it's her dad giving her money and she's not acquiring it (and the phone) elsewhere?

Yes, he likes to make sure I know as he barely pays support. Sadly he's worked his way round CSA. He very much likes that he has a lot of disposal income and I really do no so Im kept informed. I don't know why he still bothers, I have never risen to it at all.