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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to take DDs secret second phone away?

114 replies

PineappleRightsideup · 19/01/2023 19:03

Name changed so as to try not to give DD something else to complain about 😁

Would really appreciate any advice. DD is 14, since she turned 12 she's been difficult, argumentative and generally unpleasant. Despite this I have tried to stay positive and set firm rules. One non negotiable rule is that they have family link on their phones and phones (and other screens) are handed in at bedtime and not kept in rooms over night.

DD have been trying to avoid this rule for ages, she pretends to be asleep or hides her phone and says she can't find it etc. Last night she hadn't handed in so I went to get it and found she has another phone. I asked her about it today and apparently she bought it because she doesn't think she should have to had her phone in at nights as none of her friends do. She also thinks she should be able to have whatever apps she wants and have no restrictions because she's 14.

I could go on with everything DD currently dislikes but basically it's everything except her three friends. She's not well behaved at school either unfortunately and is currently refusing to do PE or wear shoes and doesn't care if she gets detentions.

Oh so not to drip feed, I feel I have to be a little bit careful as I'm worried she will move in with her biological father otherwise. He was extremely abusive to me but she has never seen that side of him and I have never wanted to tell her as they have a good relationship.

I feel a bit stuck at the moment.

Anyway part of me is hoping IABU and I should give the new phone back as it would be easier, but I don't think I am...

OP posts:
Alaimo · 19/01/2023 22:05

Maybe it's because I started reading fanfic at that age, but I don't really see the harm in it (unless it has changed a lot in the last 15-20 years). In my experience it's a fairly safe way for teens to explore their emerging feelings and sexuality. I wonder if by telling your daughter this content is inappropriate you are indirectly sending her a message that her own feelings and desires are somehow wrong or inappropriate.

Original poster
PineappleRightsideup · 19/01/2023 22:10

Alaimo · 19/01/2023 22:05

Maybe it's because I started reading fanfic at that age, but I don't really see the harm in it (unless it has changed a lot in the last 15-20 years). In my experience it's a fairly safe way for teens to explore their emerging feelings and sexuality. I wonder if by telling your daughter this content is inappropriate you are indirectly sending her a message that her own feelings and desires are somehow wrong or inappropriate.

That's a fair point Alaimo, I was reading Jackie Collins and Harold Robbins and some frankly really dodgy books at 12 (mum and dad did not hide stuff as well as they thought) and just wanted DD to not have that. But you're right about emerging feelings and sexuality and maybe it's a safe outlet. I was too busy being horrified to really think about that 😅

OP posts:
realmsofglory · 19/01/2023 22:28

It is no wonder your DD is kicking over the traces, you are WAY too controlling. She is 14 not 4

queencookiemonster · 19/01/2023 22:32

When you've cooled down and she's had time to think, could you talk to her about understanding why she wanted more privacy? Explain you want to help her use her phone responsibly for her age but any relaxing of the rules has to be based on trust. Ask her what she thinks would be a reasonable way for her to work towards you trusting her. It might help you reach a compromise on relaxing the rules a bit.

Remaker · 19/01/2023 22:34

According to my teens (16 & 15), if a friend isn’t allowed a mobile someone in the group will give them an old one. If mum and dad want to read all their messages they run two SM accounts. I tell my kids they’d better post a bit more often on their pretend accounts if they want to keep ‘fooling’ me. Not that I go through their phones anyway!

We are currently on school holidays so I don’t care what time my teens stay up to on their phones or what time they sleep in until. My 15yo woke up at 3pm the other day. If they have plans with friends or shifts at work they get up for them. Otherwise they relax. They are friendly and pleasant when they do wake up though - I just know not to talk to them much or ask questions for the first half an hour lol.

I think the important q is how and why did she get the phone. Chances are she has it to circumvent your rules. Try to stay calm (not easy, they’re bloody infuriating at that age) and listen to her point of view. Is there room for negotiation anywhere so you both feel like the other is giving a bit? Plenty of people will say come down like a ton of bricks but I’ll just say I don’t know a single person who parents like that who has a good relationship with their teen. I let a lot of little things slide to maintain generally open communication and trust with my kids.

PollyPut · 19/01/2023 22:37

Where did she get it? If it was given to her, is someone now using it to track her location? That would put her in danger.

unclebuck · 19/01/2023 22:52

when I found DD had a secret phone I ran it over 😂I was furious! Not my finest hour but it's a funny story to her now and we are very close. It's just not ok to lie and be deceptive in my house and that goes both ways.

Fandabadobie · 19/01/2023 22:53

@PineappleRightsideup let her have the second phone and turn the internet off at 11pm when it's time for sleep

Original poster
PineappleRightsideup · 19/01/2023 22:58

Fandabadobie · 19/01/2023 22:53

@PineappleRightsideup let her have the second phone and turn the internet off at 11pm when it's time for sleep

Was just talking about this to DH, we might do something like this, not til her grounding is over though. Don't want to reward her for lying and being sneaky.

OP posts:
Yazo · 19/01/2023 23:01

Personally I think it's unreasonable that she hands in her phone. If it locks at bedtime then I think that's fine isn't it? I don't think county lines are very likely to be an issue over her just wanting some independence and text her mates at 11pm. Her friend could have easily given her a spare phone, I would even notice if one of my old phones was missing. I think you need an open and honest discussion about her behaviour but that includes you listening to why she feels how she does. I'm sorry that her father was abusive to you.

Original poster
PineappleRightsideup · 19/01/2023 23:02

unclebuck · 19/01/2023 22:52

when I found DD had a secret phone I ran it over 😂I was furious! Not my finest hour but it's a funny story to her now and we are very close. It's just not ok to lie and be deceptive in my house and that goes both ways.

Hahaha five years ago I'd have probably done the same, my eldest and me (also now very very close) had some epic arguments, I'm a bit calmer now though and just tend to walk away from drama. I have a mental fuckit bucket for most things, but DD seems determined to kick that over... Or steal it!

OP posts:
Original poster
PineappleRightsideup · 19/01/2023 23:07

Yazo · 19/01/2023 23:01

Personally I think it's unreasonable that she hands in her phone. If it locks at bedtime then I think that's fine isn't it? I don't think county lines are very likely to be an issue over her just wanting some independence and text her mates at 11pm. Her friend could have easily given her a spare phone, I would even notice if one of my old phones was missing. I think you need an open and honest discussion about her behaviour but that includes you listening to why she feels how she does. I'm sorry that her father was abusive to you.

Thanks Yazo. The thing is I really don't think it's unreasonable to hand in her phone,atbe it's just because Im old and would have had to tiptoe downstairs to use the land-line at her age so definitely couldn't speak to my friends late at night... And I don't know why she'd need to speak to them then anyway!

The headmaster at her school recommends parents ask for devices to be handed in at night. I know most parents don't follow that advice but a lot do. I mean I'm open to change but I don't see any reason she needs her phone when she should be sleeping. And DD really needs her sleep, she's not very nice with sleep, I promise you at the moment she'd be unlikely to put you out if you were on fire even with 8 hours, without you have no chance. Her siblings avoid her as much as possible.

OP posts:
Boomboom22 · 19/01/2023 23:26

With family link you can set it to lock overnight and only be used for 999 and you for example. My son's locks at 9 so he just puts it down. It doesn't matter if it stays in his room as he can't use it anyway.

SpinningOutWaitinForYa · 19/01/2023 23:42

Hedjwitch · 19/01/2023 20:19

What are county lines?

When I wondered this I just opened up a new tab and put it into Google, why ask on here

caringcarer · 20/01/2023 00:03

I'd remove second phone and not mention it to her. She can hardly ask you about a second phone she does not want you to know she has. I'd continue to remove phone for charging overnight. My 16 year old son just hands his phone over when he goes to bed. He gets it back when he gets up. My phone is in lounge and DH phone is in lounge with D's phone all charging overnight. Just make it the rules for all in house. Stick to your rules. You are the adult.

Deathbyfluffy · 20/01/2023 00:43

Onnabugeisha · 19/01/2023 21:24

I haven’t constructed a narrative, I’ve listed off what the family link app does and which you said is a requirement for your DD to have on her phone. If you’re not using it for that, then why is it on her phone?

One non negotiable rule is that they have family link on their phones

Why would it be non negotiable to have an app that you do not even use?

Show quote history

No, you’ve listed off what it CAN do.

The OP doesn’t mention using half of these features - it is possible to use parts of a service / app and not others, as shocking as this may sound… 🙄

MuddlingMackem · 20/01/2023 00:50

We're another family where phones are downstairs overnight, other than the 19 year old, who uses it for an alarm. But we're hoping to convert him to an alarm clock at some point, eventually.

16 year old just brings the phone downstairs when she is ready to go to sleep, we don't have a set time, although we were stricter when she was younger.

Olive19741205 · 20/01/2023 01:00

"Oh so not to drip feed, I feel I have to be a little bit careful as I'm worried she will move in with her biological father otherwise. He was extremely abusive to me but she has never seen that side of him and I have never wanted to tell her as they have a good relationship."

I will never for the life of me understand why some women protect their piece of shit exs to their children. What good does it do? But anyway, no you're not BU, I would take both phones away OP.

Daisybuttercup12345 · 20/01/2023 01:11

Take both phones.
Buy a cheap pay as you go phone for emergencies.
Set down boundaries and stick to them.
I would even consider changing her school if you think she's in with a bad crowd.
If she won't do PE make her go swimming with you every weekend.
She's been allowed to behave badly since she was 12. You need to take control and parent her.

Olive19741205 · 20/01/2023 01:11

Onnabugeisha · 19/01/2023 21:09

You do not respect her privacy.
You use family link to filter her search results, to track her location, to track all her internet activity, to disable when she can and cannot use apps.
Shes not allowed a means to communicate with friends in the evenings, because she has to hand her phone in ‘at bedtime’.
You obviously go through her phone.

That is disrespect. She is 14…when exactly are you going to teach her online safety versus keeping her wrapped in cotton wool? When exactly is she going to learn how to self-regulate phone use if you’re keeping her phone off her past bedtime every night—-when she’s 18? At what age do you think she has any right to privacy?

This is absolutely shit parenting. I'd go as far as to say it's actually neglectful. You don't monitor a child's phone? Yet you're preaching here as if that's the norm? Unbelievable. It is not disrespectful to take a child's phone out of their bedroom at night or check that they're not being targeted or groomed ffs 😂.

NANAitsathemtheytheir · 20/01/2023 02:11

I believe every parents of children of 10 years old or over should be fully aware of County Lines, what they do, how they groom children and how dangerous it is for a child to become involved.

County Lines refers to the fact that children and teenagers use train lines to cross county borders for the selling of or distributing drugs, not just that they're just crossed into a different county. The used trains as it is easy to move around quickly and quietly without attracting attention to themselves. However there are now a lots more plain clothed police on the trains that are known to be used by County lines children.

The police, schools and colleges are very aware of this and even describe the clothes they wear as a type of uniform. They tend to (not always) wear trackie bottoms, puffer jackets, carry a small backpack and usually a man bag; even be carrying a knife or other weapon. Many use something like a Smarties tube to put the drugs and/or drug money in and pop it down their sock.

They are usually aged between 10/11 and 16 years old. Although it is mainly boys, girls also get involved in County Lines.

Often the children will tell parents they are staying with a trusted friend overnight when in fact they're staying at a drug hideout or cuckoo flat and return home the following day. These children have usually been groomed either locally or via the internet.

All the children involved in County Lines have a second phone which the handler frequently replaces so they cannot be traced.

There are some very interesting and informative Panorama episodes about County Lines, and probably many other programmes too. Definitely worth a parents of teenagers watching so they understand the problem and the warning signs.

It isn't just a stereotypical type of child that gets involved and there have been recent reports of children from extremely privileged backgrounds involved, and also being killed.

Parenting teenagers has never been easy but I think it's a lot harder nowadays because of the drugs epidemic and the fact that so many carry knives or other weapons for protection.

I was going to apologise for the long post, but then decided not to as I think it's something that Every Parent Should Be aware of

NANAitsathemtheytheir · 20/01/2023 02:15

@Hedjwitch my message a ove was in response to you; I forgot the quote, sorru

GelPens1 · 20/01/2023 08:33

@PineappleRightsideup What exactly is this ‘family lock’ on her phone? What do you monitor? I don’t like the idea of tracking someone’s location. She probably feels stifled by the control and not trusted to be independent, which is probably why she’s sneaky, lies to you, and gets in trouble in and out of school. You need to look into why her behaviour has changed. Could be county lines, other forms of grooming (would explain the money too), abuse etc. She is also old enough to know why you divorced her dad.

andwhy · 20/01/2023 08:57

Onnabugeisha - what a load of rubbish. A 14 year old is still a child! You are seriously under parenting if you think a 14 year old child should have completely free access to anything online at any time of day!

We were a phones downstairs household at that age. Now 17 and 18 and phones still go downstairs on school nights; I don't insist anymore but they are just happy with the arrangement.

Onnabugeisha · 20/01/2023 09:31

Olive19741205 · 20/01/2023 01:11

This is absolutely shit parenting. I'd go as far as to say it's actually neglectful. You don't monitor a child's phone? Yet you're preaching here as if that's the norm? Unbelievable. It is not disrespectful to take a child's phone out of their bedroom at night or check that they're not being targeted or groomed ffs 😂.

Show quote history

“Shit parenting” you say. Well all I can say is people who say stuff like that hardly have a moral high ground as parents.

Its been my parenting philosophy that DH and I’s #1 job is to teach our DCs to be independent and that includes teaching them how to be safe online. This is different from the wrap them in cotton wool and bar them free access to online age appropriate sites, while monitoring and tracking everything they do in an adversarial and judgemental environment.