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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect my exH to rent rather than buy?

199 replies

PopitPop · 19/01/2023 08:43

Asking for your viewpoints on the morality of this - I know I need legal advice.

H is useless, mean, doesn't help, I've tried again and again to talk and been ignored or laughed at. It's over for me. He won't accept it but I'm cracking on working out how it will work.

We have been married 6 years.
We own a home worth £600k.
£280k of this is equity
I put in ALL this equity (from savings, inheritance, a sale of a flat before I met him)
I earn £75k
He earns £30k.

I work full time and also do all the housework and childcare. I am the higher earner but also do most of everything. He is pretty hands off. He likes video games more than his job/family/friends.

Anyway - I spoke to a solicitor who said that he will get a much bigger % of that equity because he can't afford to buy a house round here on £30k without taking a huge % of that equity.

I want H to live in a home that is suitable for our 3 young DC to go stay and I want to be fair.

But is it really fair that he takes say 75% plus of the equity to allow him to buy somewhere?

He chose a job that pays £30k. He quit his high paid job. He chose to have no savings. He can afford to rent somewhere suitable but for him to buy somewhere with 3 beds - he would need to take a huge % of that equity. I would need to sell the home. I've worked bloody hard and have saved, worked overtime, pushed for promotion etc (and been fortunate to get an inheritance from a relative I know).

Do the settlements always look at what someone can BUY?

AIBU to think that he should have enough money to rent somewhere but shouldnt expect to be given enough money to buy somewhere?

Pls don't feel sorry for him. I can't tell you how awful he's been over the last 2 years.

OP posts:
CatJumperTwat · 19/01/2023 14:47

But for the people saying oh if the sexes were reversed...

Ignore them, OP. There are a lot of MRAs and handmaidens here who like to bleat on about double standards, as if completely different situations are comparable. Take no notice.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 19/01/2023 14:48

You didn't ring-fence your deposit or equity and you're the higher earner. So yes, get more legal advice but I think you're on the back foot here.

SnackyOnassis · 19/01/2023 14:49

This is hideous, OP, and I'm so sorry that all of your efforts to provide a good life for your family are being threatened by this leech.
Does he know what he's entitled to, or do you know what he's asking for? The only hope is that he's so lazy that he might take a settlement/buy out of his share of the house (such that it is) and eff off without you having to sell up.

tentinginmarch · 19/01/2023 14:49

I agree morally it's wrong, but legally it's right.

I had similar.

ExH put in zero effort.
I earned £90k to his £35k
I put in our £45k house deposit.
He walked with half of everything.

He needed it to buy a house for him and our daughter.

Sucks!

quietnightmare · 19/01/2023 14:50

Not sure how old your children are but on the I like calculated if he makes £30000 a year then he would be expected to pay you £4,787 and change a year. Therefore for example if he would be paying for two child for 10 years that's almost £48000. So if you make it clear and put in the contract that you will wave maintenance if that sun is taken off the money and he believes he's owed

Liorae · 19/01/2023 15:01

PopitPop · 19/01/2023 13:15

@Bellsbeachwaves the no overnights bit is nothing about money. I don't want him to have overnights because he ignores them, puts his headset on, doesn't change nappies, gets v frustrated with them and he sleeps through them crying at night. It represents me trying to retain a relationship BTW them and their father without exposing them to harm

Why does he need a three bedroom house if there will be no overnights?

Original poster
PopitPop · 19/01/2023 15:03

@Liorae I am saying why I don't want overnights to happen. I have v little chance of being successful in that argument.

OP posts:
Willyoujustbequiet · 19/01/2023 15:05

Testina · 19/01/2023 14:30

Most things aren’t “quite simple” though.

Sure, the process of owning a house as Tenants in Common with a Deed of Trust for the deposit is really really simple bash stuff.

Works fairly simple with death or split of an unmarried couple.

But not divorce. You have no guarantee of “simply” ring fencing that deposit entirely outwith the finances considered. It’s not bad thing to have done it, it shows the intention of the parties to treat it separately. But a judge can still decide that it’s relevant to the overall financial picture - which means it’s effectively not longer ringfenced at all.

Show quote history

It worked in my divorce. The judge upheld the trust and it didn't go into the pot with the rest for our settlement.

Worth every penny of the £250 and saved me a fortune.

TheMatriarchy · 19/01/2023 15:06

A lot will depend on who is primary carer of the children, if they will mostly live with you, then you have a good argument to get more of the assets. If he is as lazy and uninterested in the children as you say then hopefully every other weekend will be all (at most) he wants. Although its amazing how interested they can suddenly become when money is attached to it.
As the main earner you are in the position to get a good lawyer, and you do not have to fund his.

Bellsbeachwaves · 19/01/2023 15:07

PopitPop · 19/01/2023 14:38

Thank you for all the frank and to the point posts. It's my fault - I went into a contract and now I don't like the terms of the contract. I get it. I can't do anything about that other than try and get the most favourable terms.

But for the people saying oh if the sexes were reversed, or suggesting he still lives with me, or one person saying I sound controlling....whatever....surely when you enter a marriage you also enter it on the understanding that you will support one another, that you will build a life together. He has been cruel and neglectful. He has actively reduced his support over the years in every way - financial, emotional, practical. I am a single mum in so many ways.

He entered the marriage 6 years ago with no savings, no property, and has put in zero effort for years. And he's walking away with 3 kids who love him (despite him doing nothing but shout at them), £150k minimum, poss financial support, a car I bought outright etc He's done alright out of it all.

This is all his own making. I have tried everything - get him to therapy, him taking a lesser paid job to help his MH, agreeing that he doesn't need to do night wakes because no sleep affects him....but I see now there is nothing to do to change things.

I don't know how this will pan out and I wish you the best of luck with it.

What I'm getting at is in your last paragraph. Depending on age of children - might be different if they're babies and toddlers for example (although some men do step up and look after younger ones on divorce) - make him have them 50/50. Instead of enabling him to do jack shit, enable him to do more by saying go on then, have 50/50 , buy a house and look after your children. Sometimes it's only in the absence of the mother that the father realises he has to step up. It might be uncomfortable for a while but it's likely best for the children in the long run to have lots of contact and interest with both parents.

Safeguarding caveats and proper deadbeat caveats apply, as do it's not all men or all women etc. But some idiot parents in marriage do step up on divorce when they've got a housefull of children on their own lol. For example, unlucky lazy parent, now you've got to learn how to clean up puke!

IJustDunno · 19/01/2023 15:11

Not advising you do this but what’s to stop OP getting demoted to another job of £30k for a while and it all having to be 50/50?

Whilst in some relationships there is genuine disparity in earning potential, the problem is when it pays to not work/work hard. Case in point here.

isthistheendtakeabreath · 19/01/2023 15:15

@PopitPop

Get a second opinion - if your rad my post you'll see I'm in a very similar position and have been advised totally differently and been advised realistically I can argue 65/35 in my favour

ToughLoveLDN · 19/01/2023 15:16

I know nothing about legal proceedings but I’m wondering if you could use a lot of that stuff against him? Surely if he’s not safe to have the kids over night he doesn’t need a big house, so shouldn’t be entitled to as much money. Is there any written communication showing any of this stuff? Or that the kids go to nursery because he isn’t safe to be alone with them? What about the mental health stuff, has he tried to get help for that?

Original poster
PopitPop · 19/01/2023 15:17

@Bellsbeachwaves you're right. I just can't stand that it feels my kids are the guinea pigs in all this...

"Go stay with daddy for 3 days kids. He might step up or he might leave the little ones in a dirty nappy for an hour and ignore you when you have a nightmare at night"

But yeah. Of course my ideal is him stepping up and us co parenting well together.

OP posts:
CatJumperTwat · 19/01/2023 15:18

ToughLoveLDN The bar for not awarding the non-resident parent overnights is very high. His ex in an acrimonious divorce saying he's lazy and uninterested isn't going to cut it if he says he wants overnights. Nor would mental health issues unless there's a record of him being violent towards children.

GreetingsToTheNewBrunette · 19/01/2023 15:22

Look up the legal queen on tiktok

Testina · 19/01/2023 15:27

quietnightmare · 19/01/2023 14:50

Not sure how old your children are but on the I like calculated if he makes £30000 a year then he would be expected to pay you £4,787 and change a year. Therefore for example if he would be paying for two child for 10 years that's almost £48000. So if you make it clear and put in the contract that you will wave maintenance if that sun is taken off the money and he believes he's owed

@quietnightmare she cannot do that. Sure, she can verbally suggest it, but there is no legally binding way for her to give up a maintenance claim - it’s a claim for the children, not for her. A judge will not allow that in a Consent Order. No-one can force her to make the claim, but she can’t legally renounce her right to make it.

JustAnotherLawyer2 · 19/01/2023 15:29

Firstly, you're saying he's abusive and won't leave - apply for a non molestation order and an occupation order.

Secondly, find another solicitor.

This isn't about him being able to house the children in the same way as you - you're clearly the main carer, you have childcare arranged, despite him being the lower earner, and you say he doesn't do anything for the kids anyway. All he needs is potentially a two bed, so that if in the future he has the children to stay, they have a bedroom to share, and when they get older, they can have the two bedrooms, and he can sleep in the sitting room (housing criteria says all rooms can be used as bedrooms except kitchens/bathrooms). You need to be creative with your suggestions when you go to the FDR. Provide evidence of what he can afford on his salary (shared ownership properties if he wants to insist on a 3 bed) - each party is obliged to provide three properties for the other person, and three for themselves when going to court...so you pick what works for you as the main carer and what would work for him. You also point out what is less disruptive for the kids (staying in current house, and how that could work - you giving him 50k as deposit on shared ownership for example.)

A decent family lawyer should be able to NEGOTIATE this with him outside of court and get agreement for a consent order. People always say 'get a SH lawyer', but you need a lawyer who knows how to negotiate and settle when it comes to family law.

Grumpybutfunny · 19/01/2023 15:35

@Testina we wanted to husband and wife hence we got married but didn't want/need to combine all assets. Would be nice for prenups to be legally binding in this country.

sianiboo · 19/01/2023 15:39

Courts in the UK don't like prenups because they are seen as trying to circumnavigate away from (or ignore) existing divorce law.

Baconand · 19/01/2023 15:46

This is why it’s often better to not divorce. I get slated for saying it but in your case I’d stay married until the kids are older and use the time to change your financial set up.
Then divorce him later when it’s more “equal” and the children aren’t at risk in his care. Controversial but my friend did it. She couldn’t stand to lose her children to their crap father, who wasn't bad enough in the courts eyes to deny unsupervised contact but was to any sane person utterly shit. She had most of the money, so spent 8 years legally disappearing it and downsizing their life. Then she divorced him when the assets were less and the children old enough to say they didn’t want to see him. Sometimes the long game is necessary.

I’m the main earner that put all the money in, fortunately we are happy. But if that changes I’ll be playing the same game.

dottiedodah · 19/01/2023 15:56

PopitPop Just to say I dont think you are an idiot at all! Ring Fencing is not really a thing here.It seems very unfair that you married a guy who was presumably earning a similar amount to you at the time .Only for him to throw it in and then expect such a large share of the pot! SAHMs were protected .largely as they had often not had a chance to build a Career, and would have found it difficult to return to a well paid job after bringing up DC.Your DH had the high paying job and a chance to return to it if his MH were to improve .

Original poster
PopitPop · 19/01/2023 15:59

Think you might just be right @Baconand my eldest is a handful and H gets v wound up by him...I just can't imagine leaving him for days and nights without me being there. But then the other side of my head is telling me the longer I leave it the worse it will be.

OP posts:
Bellsbeachwaves · 19/01/2023 16:01

PopitPop · 19/01/2023 15:17

@Bellsbeachwaves you're right. I just can't stand that it feels my kids are the guinea pigs in all this...

"Go stay with daddy for 3 days kids. He might step up or he might leave the little ones in a dirty nappy for an hour and ignore you when you have a nightmare at night"

But yeah. Of course my ideal is him stepping up and us co parenting well together.

It's really hard when they're as young as I think you're saying... Nappies etc... :/

Maybe not 50/50 then ... At the same time, sometimes it's good for them to step up a bit and as I said things can get a bit polarised and out of balance in a relationship and sometimes when you're out of it things equalise.

As for the equity split, I still doubt you'll get away with keeping most of the equity and him renting. I think that would b U. Even though it'll sting, the money in your marriage is to house the children. However that works out. He could also drag it out till they're older anyway and insist he has them 50/50. In which case it's unlikely you'll be able to fight that. Some divorces literally take years.

sianiboo · 19/01/2023 16:06

@Bellsbeachwaves My parent's divorce took 3 and a half years, due to all the fighting over equity/assets. In that whole time the mortgage wasn't paid on the house - but my mother refused to sell it, until ordered to do so by the court. In the end the only 'winners' were the solicitors and the bank, who took about £15K of the equity in fees etc (this was back in 1992).