AIBU to ask how we can become less individualistic

[DeidreData]

… as a whole society?

Not a TAT, but looking at increasingly (mardy, goady) tones online plus various threads on here at any given time, how do we make a change to stop thinking “as a wedding guest I can wear whatever the hell I like/as a homeowner I can do whatever I want in my garden/as a customer I can demand whatever I want in a shop/as a parent I can expect whatever I think is right from a school”?

I know that not all of these are exactly like the other, but what are practical things we can do to encourage a sense of us living in a society? That it’s a balance of not being doormats and understanding that we all experience moments of discomfort for the greater good?

Genuinely looking for ideas, because I’m sick of feeling hopeless about it. Thanks IA x

Yes. I suggest you watch/read '1984; for some inspiration.

Afraid I have no answers as I fall into the default of "being nice", which means I often feel like a bit of a doormat, so from the opposite side I have tried to raise kids who do not always defer to others, who do rush to the front sometimes and don't always miss out.

Perhaps as most women's default has historically been "nice", we are encouraging future generations to do what the heck they like sometimes... so it may have gone too far the other way in some cases.

Pardon?

Less individualistic? Why on earth would we want to be LESS individualistic?

You're not making any sense.

💯

I think, OP, the word you're looking for is selfish not individualistic.

According to dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/individualism, Individualism is “the idea that freedom of thought and action for each person is the most important quality of a society, rather than shared effort and responsibility”. My point is that freedom of thought and action is great and vital to a flourishing free society, but having binned much of the other end of the spectrum (“shared effort and responsibility”) are we lacking a balance that isn’t just individual choice and preference, because that leads to a fragmented community and lack of willingness to make social sacrifices.

A successful society is about balance, so how to we find that middle ground again?

I think there’s definitely an element of this. People who have been walked over for hundreds or thousands of years are feeling a bit “fuck you, I’ll take care of myself now”. But so much research shows that we actually feel better doing more social involvement, caring and interaction, rather than locking ourselves away and sacking off all responsibility in the name of “self-care” (which I totally get).

How do we find that balance?

I'm currently listening to the audiobook "Us" by Terrence Real and he explores the concept of individualism quite a lot, the two different kinds. One is a rugged individualist and the other a romantic (I think!), in the context of marriage/romantic relationships but it's been making me think about things differently.

This place is full of wilful misunderstanding. Of course OP doesn't mean we should all shave our heads and live in grey suits.

My understanding is that cultures live somewhere on a continuum between highly individualistic and highly cooperative. I was given the example of someone in a class in Central America saying, "crap, I missed my bus". Other people in the class would feel duty bound to offer a lift. In Northern America they would say, "that sucks". Unless indigenous which is often very collective culturally.

It is interesting as both have pluses and minuses. I don't know that you can shift a whole populace! And the UK isn't all the way individualistic anyway.

@MrsTerryPratchett You're absolutely right, the UK isn’t completely individualistic and there are many, many examples of generous, socially minded people and day to day gestures towards community living. But it does feel like, having chucked away major religion (for better or worse), we don’t really have that structure around humility, service, charity etc.

That’s a sweeping generalisation, I know, but looking at threads on here there feels such a movement towards “this is what I want, so everyone else can get lost”.

The religion piece I completely reject. I come from (unusually) three generations of atheists. Service, kindness and generosity were drummed into me!

I do agree that more could be done to foster community.

Reduce the size of your circle. Get the fuck off social media.

Yes, you’re right, of course non-religious people can (and often are) the nicest members of society. But as a large group, did mainstream religion as a norm help inculcate those ideas across the board? Obviously organised religion does massive amounts of damage too, but is there anything now to encourage those behaviours day to day society-wide? (Genuine question.)

Move to Asia, Europe and North America are individualistic societies, Asian culture, and many other countries have a more collectivist culture. There a benefits and drawbacks to both types of society.

Yes, I don’t use social media apart from MN, and I’ve found focusing on face to face meet ups personally very helpful. But are there changes we can make in our communities to help? Start sports teams? Tea parties? Walking groups?

I already live in a community like this - we have each other’s backs. Tbh I doubt you’ll find it in a city.

choices.

It definitely feels easier out of a city, but I’ve also lived in major cities where we all knew and helped our neighbours. It just feels cultural at the moment, where that spirit is being chipped away by politics, economics, and social media.

I want to be proactive and not just wail about it, though.

We have an individualist culture in the west , that would be very difficult to undo. There's positive and negatives to both , shame and honour in collectivist societies is more of a thing.

Spending less time online is a big part of it. There's very little actual community compared to real life.

My family is multicultural and I like pieces from both. DHs family is very much all about the extended family and close. There seems to be more emphasis on extended family and also ensuring kids are helped on their way to independence. My family aren't poor but never helped me with driving lessons , house deposit I was expected to do everything myself. They haven't really wanted to be an active role in my DDs life it seems more nuclear family based DH feels more obligation towards his family financially and socially , I don't because they haven't really given me anything.

Could i ask what makes you think that this shared coming together to support others doesn't already exist? I'm part of a wonderful team of volunteers who spend a huge amount of time supporting others who are struggling. This is replicated up and down the country. I don't have much time for this notion that we are acting more as individuals and less as a community as time goes on. I think a lot of this is mainly encouraged by certain media outlets for people to think that they have to keep up with the Joneses. In the real world, a lot of society would collapse without people giving up their time.

I actually think that as poverty soars and the wealth gap gets ever more glaring, we'll see a return amongst the working class to more community focused and less consumer driven attitudes. That's what's happening in my rural ex industrial town, where the food bank, now heat bank as well has become something that is reminding me of the community halls of my youth (pre miners strikes / closure of the mine and the selling off of social housing) . It is the way of poverty. But it's the worst way to regain community spirit, and I'd rather not be witness to the coupled abject misery I get to see alongside the return of a community spirit.

Get a dictionary OP.

Because we live in a society and humans are social animals.