Cosmetic surgery DOES affect others

[EmmaDilemma5]

I'm sick of reading people who defend others cosmetic surgery/procedures with;

"it's their body, they can do as they please"

"Each to their own"

"If it makes them feel happier then what's the harm?"

The harm is, that it sets a ridiculous standard that most (usually young women) can't meet naturally and therefore feel pressured to undergo changes to their body to look "good".

It's not a personal decision, because collectively, it's impacting society norms and pressures on people.

I'm not talking about those that truly help people with abnormally different features. I totally get why someone with ears that grow out at 90° may want them pinned back. Or someone with a huge nose may want to reduce it to a more "normal" size. I still hope they'd feel fine in their own skin but get why the majority of people may struggle with largely unusual features.

But I am actually angry sometimes at those that "enhance" normal looks. Lip fillers, tattoo makeup on eyebrows, lips, boob jobs. It seems to me that the majority of women who have these procedures have very normal features before having them and it's just really sad that they feel they need to undergo them to feel ok.

Lip fillers are the worst for me. It's affordable and easy to arrange. I fear my daughter will grow up thinking her lips aren't big enough (if her parents' are anything to go by anyway) because every other person seems to have massive lips and to look beautiful she'll need to pump her face with crap.

When do we say, enough is enough, we don't want the next generation living like this?!

The thing is I regularly go out without makeup and I've had procedures done to my face. I only ever wear light makeup occasionally a bit heavier if I'm going on a night out. I like looking fresh faced that's all I'm aiming for.

I agree.

Why is it okay to make snide comments about trout pouts, inflated breasts, Jack Nicholson eyebrows, etc? You'd be pissed off if people made bitchy remarks about saggy cheeks, wrinkly jowls, and lips thinner than thread.

Its not okay to make catty remarks about how other people look, surely that feeds into the pressure OP is so dead against...?

Do you also get 'angry' about women wearing makeup, shaving their legs and colouring their hair? What about going to the gym to sculpt their bodies? It goes beyond just being fit. Does this anger you too?
Nails? False eyelashes? Push up bras? Spanx? All perpetuating unrealistic beauty standards. Do they give you the rage?
Perhaps work on your anger

Yes some people have gaps in their eyebrows and yes some men do have this done.

The first person I knew in real life to have eyebrow tattooed was a man who had patchy eyebrows.

A current colleague of mine had hers tattooed after they became patchy during her cancer treatment.

@Iam4eels , I agree. These threads are always full of absolute vile comments from the anti- tweakment brigade about other women’s bodies. Ironic!

Its not okay to make catty remarks about how other people look.

Agree.

Well said , each to their own. Have had Botox in forehead, small amount of lip filler and micro bladed eyebrows. It all makes me feel good at 66. As said previously the correct practitioner is a must.

I agree to an extent and I think part of the problem is that we are caught in a cycle where people want things done because others are having it done etc so it escalates. I have had a cosmetic procedure done myself but doubt I would have done it if hardly anyone else did..

That's ridiculous, you can't ban something on the basis that some women having it makes other women feel bad. Where does it end - shall we ban make up because it puts pressure on other women to wear it? Bad hair dye? Ban clingy clothes?

I agree that it looks bad, and it's bad that young women in particular with their already perfect skin feel pressure to have those ridiculous lips. But the change has to come from deeper, from the types of pressures that push women to value that look and the low self esteem. Banning it won't help anything.

Well I had my eyebrows tattooed on because I'm so fair you couldn't see my eyebrows otherwise and I've had a boob job because I dropped from a C cup to an A cup after breast feeding. To look at me, you would never guess I've had a boob job.
Couldn't care less what other people think.

You could argue that if you feel you have to spend half and hour to an hour a day putting ‘slap on’, it’s having a huge impact.

So wearing it, (following ops logic) makes other women feel they need to spend half an hour to an hour, a day, also putting make up is having a huge impact on their lives.

Who can measure which has more of an impact on women’s lives?

Yes, it is true that beauty standards can cause societal harm but I think that’s always been true. When an optional choice feels like an expectation I think that’s clear. Someone up thread mentioned covering their hairy legs before nipping to the shop for example. We all know there’s nothing wrong with not shaving but I think societal beauty standards cause women to feel shame for not doing so.

I’m not sure how much we should be involved in restricting what people do though. I’d just argue for more transparency that many of the idealised looks are not natural (so it’s not an individual’s failing that they don’t look like that) and finding ways to encourage strong self esteem in child (I don’t have an answer to this one tbh as mine was appalling as a child).

Same.

Especially young people. My daughter has BDD and is absolutely convinced she needs to have lip fillers because her lips are too small.

Her lips are not small at all, but obviously they aren't those exaggerated large lips that have been artificially filled.

It's skewing everyone's idea of normal.

Its not okay to make catty remarks about how other people look.

And I agree with this - and think this feeds into the self esteem issue. Women seem to be pitted against each in a way that doesn’t happen with men - whether it tearing someone down for not wearing make up of making degrading remarks because they are. If more time was spend pointing out the positives of others I think of lot of the beauty standards would fade away and people would just do as they want - not what they think they need to do.

I agree - I find women in their 20’s with the whole lip filler/plastic face thing shocking and upsetting - you are your most beautiful in your teens and 20’s and it’s awful that girls nowadays are feeling that pressure. I caught an episode of towie the other day, not seen it for years, and the girls all looked like they share the same plastic surgeon!

I think a lot of the blame lies with the uprise of the internet and porn culture - it’s so easy now to access and this is the look women are trying to emulate because they believe it’s what men want - and indeed unfortunately IS the look a lot of men want as they think these porn actresses represent real women and their expectations of what their girlfriend should look like.

How many men do you think fill in the gaps in their eyebrows with make up every day?

I'm yet to meet a man who owns an eyebrow pencil. Have you?

It would be great to live in a world where nobody had unnecessary cosmetic procedures. But actually banning them seems excessively authoritarian.

It would be quite nice if people just chose not to have them though.

Agree. Botox now routine for middle class 40 year olds. So I look haggard. Thanks a lot.
I'm never going down that route. It is a decision with wider social consequences, as you say.

The personal is sociological. To paraphrase. So if something gains enough traction it becomes the norm.

So it's okay in your opinion that someone with a big nose should make it smaller but YOU'VE decided that's acceptable. However not acceptable for someone to think they'll look nicer with bigger lips?

YABU

and no I don't have lip filler.

Mind you, what I agree with is that it's not just a personal responsibility, it has ramifications for all of us. It's just accepting that it has an impact on others, not for the better.

I dye my hair, I can take responsibility for the fact that this obliged others to do the same to avoid being the "odd one out".

Whether we can or should limit individual freedoms on the back of it, I'm not clear.

To those saying limit your children's social media, this is only possible for so long, and even then it's not going to stop the social change, just your own child's exposure to it for a fixed period while you are in control of their social media consumption.

I'm on the fence. I'm in my 50s and not bothered about botox, fillers etc as quite frankly I wasn't that pretty to begin with so it wouldn't hugely improve how i look. Maybe make me look a bit younger but still not pretty! So I would rather spend the (limited) money I have on other things.

If I won millions on the lottery however, you probably wouldn't recognise me for all the changes I would have! There's a long list! Although I still wouldn't want a duck pout!

So I can't really argue I'm anti surgery as with 100k + to splash out then yes it would feel worth it. "Tweaks" adding up to 100s isn't worth it for me.

I do agree re the pressure on young women but I don't really see what we can do about it other than bring them up to know their worth isn't tied to their looks. But even then, how can I say that given the rest of what I said?

Yes, I have known men wear make up their whole lives. Including the one who had them tattooed that I mentioned.

I have quite a diverse group of friends though. You clearly don’t.

Besides which we were talking about tattoos

As someone who knows nothing about science, could I ask a (probably stupid) question. Will cosmetics/plastic surgery soon be replaced by gene editing? I understand that we will soon be editing the genes of unborn babies (so-called designer babies), but could we one day edit the genes of adults? Is that possible? If so, will people be altering their features (making their nose straight, altering the colour of their eyes and their skin, etc)? Could we even alter height and bone structure?

Totally agree.

The normalisation of filler, and cheap/easy access to filler, is one of the worst things to ever happen to modern beauty standards. I see so many women complaining that they have thin lips, I’d have no top lip. Yes, that’s because you’re Caucasian and that’s how you’re supposed to look.

I see women everywhere, on TV, social media and IRL with badly done filler, migrating up towards their nose. I despair for young girls growing up thinking their natural faces are inadequate.