Cosmetic surgery DOES affect others

[EmmaDilemma5]

I'm sick of reading people who defend others cosmetic surgery/procedures with;

"it's their body, they can do as they please"

"Each to their own"

"If it makes them feel happier then what's the harm?"

The harm is, that it sets a ridiculous standard that most (usually young women) can't meet naturally and therefore feel pressured to undergo changes to their body to look "good".

It's not a personal decision, because collectively, it's impacting society norms and pressures on people.

I'm not talking about those that truly help people with abnormally different features. I totally get why someone with ears that grow out at 90° may want them pinned back. Or someone with a huge nose may want to reduce it to a more "normal" size. I still hope they'd feel fine in their own skin but get why the majority of people may struggle with largely unusual features.

But I am actually angry sometimes at those that "enhance" normal looks. Lip fillers, tattoo makeup on eyebrows, lips, boob jobs. It seems to me that the majority of women who have these procedures have very normal features before having them and it's just really sad that they feel they need to undergo them to feel ok.

Lip fillers are the worst for me. It's affordable and easy to arrange. I fear my daughter will grow up thinking her lips aren't big enough (if her parents' are anything to go by anyway) because every other person seems to have massive lips and to look beautiful she'll need to pump her face with crap.

When do we say, enough is enough, we don't want the next generation living like this?!

I wonder why it matters so much to you whether people can ‘see’ the work you have had done?

If your forehead is quite/very smooth but you have old hands for instance it will be obvious.
if you have a wrinkled neck, décolleté and a million other indicators of age that can’t be injected away.

These pumped up lips look ridiculous - like a cross between a blow up doll and someone who has been stung by a bee.

@Swissmountains it doesn't matter to me. I haven't had anything done but I would if I wanted to. I'm just fine with people claiming things they aren't in a position to claim but that are unable to see how ludicrous their claims are. 'I see dead people 👀'. Yah. Sure ya do.

@Swissmountains

If your forehead is quite/very smooth but you have old hands for instance it will be obvious.
if you have a wrinkled neck, décolleté and a million other indicators of age that can’t be injected away.

Sure, but that goes into the category of obvious work. That's not what the claims of 'I can always tell' are about.

Lets face it, most work you can see, and unless you are going to get entire face lifts, neck lifts and put much of your body under the knife it won't last and everything will look a little mismatched!

Ageing is a fact of life. You can approach it with positivity and acceptance or you can down screaming with plenty of people willing to cash in on your insecurity.

Lets face it, most work you can see

Are you the one who thought Botox gives a "sheen" and didn't realise it's possible to get Botox on the 11s but not the forehead?

I'll tell you what really is always obvious: a person with absolutely no experience of these procedures and who takes their entire understanding from extreme celebrity cases and common sitcom jokes circa 2005. I don't know why you so badly want all this nonsense to be true but it simply isn't.

If you want to get Botox, just go get it. It's fine. It's a minor skin procedure, not a drive-by shooting.

Ageing is a fact of life. You can approach it with positivity and acceptance or you can down screaming with plenty of people willing to cash in on your insecurity

Tbh you don’t actually have to accept bodily dysfunction. Lots of scientifically proven ways to delay ageing in both mind and body.

Literally the only positive about ageing is that you aren’t dead yet.

And as so bloody many of us keep saying...we aren't doing this to look younger. We are generally doing it to look less tired and frowny, and a bit fresher.

For people who claim to ALWAYS be able to spot the smallest procedures, they aren't half crap at receiving clear information.

@ReneBumsWombats - I am applauding you.

I very much look 46 (my age) but not a scowly pissed off 46 !!

Exactly!! You look like you at your age, just a fresher, less scowly you.

But these people just can't understand that we're not all trying to look younger. And they can't understand that some procedures are subtle and unless you knew the face really well beforehand, you just can't tell. (And even then you might put it down to better health or something.) And they can't understand that any restriction of movement wears off, and at the lower doses at least, you don't lose all movement at any point.

And they think Botox gives you a "sheen". Let me tell you, if someone appears to be emitting their own light, they haven't had Botox, they're radioactive. Run.

No, all of my forehead moves.

I don’t care if people can see subtle Botox. I don’t mind people knowing

Okay.... everyone on MN has perfect, discreet, minimal Botox, that doesn't actually work as their entire face is still moving fully. They have Botox that somehow magically "removes" wrinkles, while not actually relaxing a single muscle. It is miracle Botox, exlusive to only MN users. What a bonus!

Like I said, for people who are so expert at spotting microscopic signs of historic treatments, you lot aren't half shit at absorbing clear communication.
Yes, some people overdo it. Most don't. Have a think about why you might spot the former more easily. Low doses of Botox do not completely arrest movement at any point. And they all wear off pretty quickly, leaving you with full movement and no lines. If you actually had any experience of it, you'd know this, but why let facts get in the way?

The vast majority of people have minimal, discreet work that isn't discernible except by line disappearance (which, oddly, is the one pretty huge clue all you experts don't seem to mention). Unless perhaps you obsessively scrutinise every woman you ever see in great detail to search for it, which to be fair, you and others do sound like you do. But even then, you'd only spot the higher doses during a relatively short period of time before all movement returns.

And to be honest, I still don't think you could even then because for all your obsessiveness, you've all made it clear that you don't actually know what it looks like and you've based your understanding entirely on extreme celebrity cases and outdated sitcoms. Sheen, wtf? It's Botox, not an LED bulb implant. Or the ever-useful "I can't say how I know, I just do". Compelling!

You are starting to come over as incredibly spiteful now and I can only assume you have unresolved issues around the matter. Try Botox instead, it's much more fun.

I’m 61. I have forehead lines, my eyelids are starting to droop, I have nose to chin lines, those vertical upper lip lines that look like they are due to smoking except that I have never smoked, a small mouth (although my lips are a nice shape and colour) but do you know, I don’t give a shit. My face tells my story honestly.

Ageing as in looking older isn’t a dysfunction, is it.

And that's absolutely fine. You do you. I'm sure you look great.

@KimberleyClark what does ‘my face tells my story honestly’ actually mean.

People know private details about ‘your story’ from looking at your face?

Well that’s not a genuine question, is it? We all know your face doesn’t magically communicate one’s private details.

I imagine Kimberlyclark meant that she has the expression lines on her face one might expect of a woman of 61. But you already knew that.

I imagine Kimberlyclark meant that she has the expression lines on her face one might expect of a woman of 61. But you already knew that

you have a naturally downturned mouth that has become worse due to
age. Actually you are just a sad person and that’s the story your face is telling. You have forehead ‘elevens’ and you’re angry person; that’s the story your face is telling.

… yeah don’t know why they want Botox either 😂

Every face tells a story - my laughter lines and freckles tell one too.

Luckily my forehead no longer tells a lie that I am permanently f*ked off and unapproachable ( Botox on number 11s)

I mean I am sometimes f*ked off and unapproachable just not all the time.

Luckily Botox hasn't taken away my ability to scowl when needed

I work in the City and there are very few women around my age (50) who don’t have subtle work done. I also see it like make up. You are not completely changing your face or looking 25, you just make the best of what you’ve got. In my case that is softening my lines and getting rid of my marionette lines completely as I hate those and don’t think they tell a significant story other than that my face has started to sag!

The sneery comments about "ooh, your practitioner must be better than those in Hollywood" are just proof that these people's knowledge is limited to well-publicised and extreme examples of the very rich and famous, in circles where it's almost unheard of not to get anything done...and Botox is the absolute least of it.

If you can't tell the difference between some subtle Botox and numerous procedures up to and including full facelifts, don't come at us about your amazing powers of observation.

This made me think of a conversation I had a while back with a youngish lad in the gym. He was saying so many guys use steroids now that it's disheartening for the average guy putting in so much efforf for such small gains. I think he said steroids increase protein synthesis (muscle growth) by something like a factor of 15x.

Sadly steroid abuse amongst young men is increasing dramatically as they try and get that 'Love Island' look. I see plenty of these lads down the gym who by any yardstick are big stacked blokes but they do not look 'sport fit' if that makes sense. They all look the same, sleeve tattoos, bleached teeth, same fashion gear. You see other people in the gym, usually wearing their sports club training kit (rugby, hockey, rowing etc) and although they are not big units they just look in shape and healthy. The Love Island lads just look like comical poundshop WWF wrestlers.

I had no idea so many Mumsnetters had "work" done! I'd rather throw away my money on other hobbies.