Cosmetic surgery DOES affect others

[EmmaDilemma5]

I'm sick of reading people who defend others cosmetic surgery/procedures with;

"it's their body, they can do as they please"

"Each to their own"

"If it makes them feel happier then what's the harm?"

The harm is, that it sets a ridiculous standard that most (usually young women) can't meet naturally and therefore feel pressured to undergo changes to their body to look "good".

It's not a personal decision, because collectively, it's impacting society norms and pressures on people.

I'm not talking about those that truly help people with abnormally different features. I totally get why someone with ears that grow out at 90° may want them pinned back. Or someone with a huge nose may want to reduce it to a more "normal" size. I still hope they'd feel fine in their own skin but get why the majority of people may struggle with largely unusual features.

But I am actually angry sometimes at those that "enhance" normal looks. Lip fillers, tattoo makeup on eyebrows, lips, boob jobs. It seems to me that the majority of women who have these procedures have very normal features before having them and it's just really sad that they feel they need to undergo them to feel ok.

Lip fillers are the worst for me. It's affordable and easy to arrange. I fear my daughter will grow up thinking her lips aren't big enough (if her parents' are anything to go by anyway) because every other person seems to have massive lips and to look beautiful she'll need to pump her face with crap.

When do we say, enough is enough, we don't want the next generation living like this?!

I just don't get the problem with kids knowing that their Mother has had a treatment. Parents are people with lives, desires, insecurities.

I don’t see the posters who have work done spout off about how awful it is to see women with jowls, wrinkles, hooded eye lids and marionette lines.

You missed this gem.

I don’t quite get the argument that it affects anyone other than the person involved. You don’t like the way it looks - I happen to agree with you. I find it unattractive and often quite strange even when it’s “subtle” so I can’t imagine anything on earth making me want to look like that. It’s the same with the teenagers in my life they have fun with make up but that’s about it.

I’m kind of live and let live about this. But if you really feel that societal pressure around procedures is changing beauty standards why don’t you feel sorry for the people who buy into it? Or the people who are dysmorphic?

The thing is why is nobody asking why generally - Hollywood celebs and a few whackos excepted- men are not having these botox/filler/facelift/microwaving etc etc etc conversations? And please don't post with what about.. .......(insert male celeb name) because we all know that the average bloke is not talking about this whereas the average woman is. Surely it's all about societal pressure to conform to a certain "look".
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OP you are sure you're not salty because of a lack of funds to get tuned up?

I read somewhere that a study showed young men now can’t identify natural breasts. And also as a white girl with natural large lips it pisses me off that everyone thinks I might have had them done.

Cosmetic surgery generally makes people look like complete freak shows. Can only think that most people who have it done have body dysmorphia, and should be given therapy instead.

Because we can. And have the means to😎

This really isn’t true. Men just don’t talk about it. I am in an industry filled with normal people (mostly) who are not famous but your looks are rather important. So men routinely show up to work with new hair plugs, veneers, dye jobs, etc. also no one looks their age, so definitely some men are getting Botox on the sly and don’t say anything.

Maybe it’s worse they don’t talk about it. One time we had a work party with some alcohol and one male coworker was goading another (male) coworker to admit he’d had his nose done! Almost got physical 😱

Botox and hair dye are wonderful things, if done correctly.

I personally don't understand why a woman would want to go grey, but I wouldn't start a thread knocking them for it!

Like I said, plenty of men in the waiting room at my clinic. And if we're all after the same undefined "look", I can't tell you what it is because everyone is very normal looking and we definitely all look different.

It's a difficult conversation to have when so many people just can't grasp that the vast majority of people who do it aren't having an excessive amount of procedures to change their faces completely into a Kardashian. We just want to look like a slightly better version of who we are. Less tired, less scowly.

Men most definitely do talk about it insofar as not just politely ignoring if one of their mates or work colleagues has got work done. Blokes can be pretty brutal when it comes to taking the piss out if each other. Whether that is better then just ignoring any cosmetic work and then bitching about it behind the person's back later is a moot point.

Because they are. Not necessarily talking about it, but certainly doing it. If you shun procedures yourself, you are just unlikely to be aware of it.
A clinic has opened in my (small) town run by men and many of their customers are men.
I have a friend who holds botox parties (another issue entirely, with which I disagree) and the husbands have started getting it done as well. These are ordinary men in their 40s and 50s, in construction, very far from any Hollywood stereotype.
My 20s DSs tell me that their friends are talking about when is the best time to start botox to avoid crows feet, and that they're saving for Turkey teeth, which are a huge trend (see England squad with their identikit smiles) and very risky and invasive.
Obviously it's more prevalent amongst women, but increasingly men are focusing on their appearance and catching on to the procedures they think will enhance them.
I find it very interesting actually and wonder what it says about societal expectations, whether they're changing and why.

Yeh loads of men ag work (city a banking) particularly age 30-55 have

• hair transplants
• dyed hair (hardly anyone grey or white anymore)
• dyes and theaded eyebrows
• Botox
• fillers
• skin treatments / peels
• lipo inc chest lipo

Etc it's easy to recognise before and after if you're used to it ! Particularly if someone has a random 2 week break with vague reason then more hair or slimmer torso etc or face lift

Men in city rarely look old or knarled ! Ifs changed

Everyone's face moves differently. So perhaps person As face moves slightly less than it did but it may still move more than person Bs un-botoxed face. It's all within the parameters of normal facial expression so no one will think anything is off

Good username 👍🏼 miaow

@DanseAvecLesLoups Which begs the question if people don't even notice then what's the point of the treatment?
They just think you look really good. But don't know how. They think it's healthy living and great aging

It's all within the parameters of normal facial expression so no one will think anything is off

And yet many of us on this thread have said we do find something looks "off".

Yes because you are noticing those that have had enhancements that are obvious. The whole point that you and others seem to struggle with understanding is, you only notice the ones you notice. Unless you take a survey of every person you come across, you have zero idea who has had enhancements. You have no idea how many people you walk past that have had things done that you aren't observing as off

Yes because you are noticing those that have had enhancements that are obvious.

No, I am noticing subtle, discreet, so-called "sprinkles" of Botox.

I really don't care what you do. Just don't tell me I can't see what I can see!

No, you're not. What you're noticing is not subtle. If it were you wouldn't notice it. No one is telling you you've never seen botox, we all have. People are telling you its almost certain that you have failed to see some people's botox.

Of course it's up to the individual what they do. But tbh seeing photos of celebs who have had botox puts me off having it. And those horrific breast implant stories. No thanks. Too risky.

so you don't approve of cosmetic surgery, except where needed - so who is to decide that?
what about tatoos, body piercing, why not ban dieting and healthy eating in case that puts pressure on anyone, or getting your hair coloured?

You don't get it do you. You see the ones you see. You don't see the ones you don't see. You are not superhuman. If you can't see it you can't see it and no amount of proclaiming your superhuman powers will make it so. Fact it, there are people you walk past every day who have had procedures that you are completely unaware of. You won't know because you can't tell.

@thewinterwitch I find it be bemusing that you honestly can't understand this VERY basic truth. You think you can see it on everyone who has had it but you don't know who has had it so you are not in a position to say that. It's like saying 'I can spot someone with autism because it's so obvious' when you have no idea who aground you had autism so you will only spot those who are displaying obvious sights of autism then you start poncing about proclaiming that you can 'always tell'. It's the sort of statement made only be the truly stupid