to not know if this offensive?

[Catnary]

Colleague in canteen queue today, I comment that the food looks tasty. She makes a face, points to the label and says “Yeah but look, I’m not eating that!”

Label says “Halal beef casserole”.

I say “but it’s just a different way of slaughtering the cow”

”Yeah I know, that’s what I mean, it’s SO cruel. I can’t have that on my conscience.”

This was all very loud and other people overheard. Neither colleague nor I are Muslim but many other colleagues are. I felt very uncomfortable, didn’t engage, and ordered the beef.

Is this just no different to a vegetarian declaring loudly that they couldn’t possibly be so cruel as to eat meat, or is it a slur on Muslims? It felt inappropriate, especially at work.

@Bagsundermyeyestoday I used to run a catering company.

I no longer runa catering company.

@DeFacto I do pronounce my H's though. However, I miss out 'the' in my sentences when I'm in conversation - 'are ya going to shop?'. Pronounce you as ya. I've never heard this aitch vs haitch though 🤣.

I also pronounce tongue as 'tong', and not 'tung'. I pronounce moor, poor, and tour as mooer, pooer and tooer.

I'm not that far away from Lancashire, so I don't know if this makes a difference with my accent.

If I was going to have my throat slit, I'd sooner be conscious rather than unconscious when it happened, but any prayers said would be completely irrelevant to me.

Unfortunately when they say 'halal slaughter' they never tell you if it was stunned or not first. Kosher slaughter never involves stunning.

Religion shouldn't provide a loophole in the law for people to do something that causes animals pain and suffering that would be illegal otherwise.

If I was going to have my throat slit, I'd sooner be conscious rather than unconscious

Goodness. Why? Would you also rather be awake for open heart surgery?

@Catnary, that seems fair enough-ish.

I used to run a catering company. All meat was organic or free-range, so wouldn't have been halal. I couldn't do Kosher either because I couldn't provide the religiously correct separation of various food-stuffs.

Essentially, people who required certain religious requirements around food would never have come to me.

I think in mass-catering situations religion shouldn't be a concern. The vegetarian option is there for people who wish to believe that God cares about what they eat.

Bollocks, got it the wrong way around. The downsides of posting at nearly 2am! Of course I'd rather be UNconscious!

@MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud

I'd say you are more Lancashire with that.

Mooer, pooer?

Moor, poor.

And 'Are you going to the shop?'.

I don't blame you! I will never organise a work Christmas function again!

If you’re going to announce that something someone else might hate is lovely, I think you can’t complain if that other person says it’s not lovely. To not voice her opinion on the Halal meat might well make your colleague feel like she’s agreeing that Halal meat can be lovely when she’s actually ethically opposed to it. If you were telling a vegan it looked lovely they wouldn’t be wrong to tell you it really didn’t.

The exceptions from otherwise accepted and required standards for animal welfare that Halal (and Kosher) slaughter require were allowed specifically to cater for religious needs. Given that, I can see why someone whose beliefs do not require those exception might be a bit horrified at the idea of animals being slaughtered in a way that wouldn’t normally be considered too cruel to be legal. There might also be an added element of anger that meat slaughtered using those methods is being used to serve lots of people who do not even have that religious need, so far more animals suffering than the religious need warrants.

Having said that, I do think there are some people who really use it as a dig at the religion and wouldn’t be at all concerned about the difference in slaughter methods if it hadn’t been associated with Islam. It’s a coded way of indicating a prejudice that’s unsayable in professional settings. But you can’t know that that’s the case here. I think there are far more people who would be horrified at the slaughter method than would be upset at it because it was Islamic.

*a way that would normally…

@DeFacto nope. I kind of know where I was born. Definitely Yorkshire. I did say I'm close to the boundary though. If you are from Yorkshire, you'll realise our accents change significantly. Leeds, Harrogate, Bradford, York, Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Rishworth. All of which have different dialects.

I find veganism more offensive tbh

Ffs

Guaranteed she will be off to her local Indian restaurant for her chicken bhuna with rice at the weekend.

It’s not halal meat that irks her, it’s Muslims being catered for that pisses her off.

Guaranteed she will be off to her local Indian restaurant for her chicken bhuna with rice at the weekend.

It’s not halal meat that irks her, it’s Muslims being catered for that pisses her off.

Let's be fair, her local 'Indian' wouldn't be halal or Muslim run. If it was 'Indian' it would be Hindu or Sikh.

What you perceive to be 'Indian' is most likely Bangladesh which is more aligned to Pakistan than India, most curry houses in the UK are Bangladeshi. Who are more Pakistani than Indian.

I tried to be a vegetarian many years ago, I lasted 6 months. I have never, and can't ever, imagine me becoming a vegan. I don't think that any other type of "milk" on my cornflakes, or in my cup of tea, tastes acceptable, never mind nice. I also love cow and buffalow milk made cheeses.

But I do hate that calves are often taken away from their mums when they are less than a day old, I find that barbaric, so I wish that milk based products had to have printed on them whether they were left with their mums until normal weaning ages for cows, or taken straight away.

When I am shopping for eggs or poultry, I will usually only buy free range options, or barn bred ones, if temporarily needed while bird flu is around, and if apart from being in a barn, the birds are treated as well as is possible. However, on the rare occasions that I eat out at a restaurant, where you can't usuall tell where the meat has come from, I admit to just trying not to think about it.

I have very little spare money, but when I can give to any charities, it will usually be to ones concerned with the welfare of farmed animals (oh, and dog charities - except for the RSPCA). I don't go to Curry Houses any more, because I refuse to eat halal meat, and if anywhere else also admits to using halal meat, then I won't eat there either. My choices have nothing to do with any religion, and yes, if asked, I would be vocal about them.

If I ever knew anyone who is involved in feeding chicks into those awful crushing machines, I would be very tempted to tip them into it.

OP, Your question was “AIBU to not know if this was offensive”?
IMO, yes, you are.
If you work/live in a multicultural environment it behoves you to learn about other cultures in order to understand others' values/customs etc. Maybe you could do a bit of research on Halal meat production so you can be better informed?
In any event you aren't responsible for what your colleague says/thinks/eats.

Farmers daughter here. All slaughter houses, halal or not, are government regulated. Animals will/should not suffer either way they are killed or it would not be allowed. Your only problem lies if a slaughterhouse ignores these regulatory rules (those that do include halal and non halal slaughter). Most farmers go to extreme lengths to find the best slaughterhouse for their animals and farmers also believe animal killed should not be wasted. If it is then that is also awful in itself too. Educate yourself on the slaughter process of good slaughter of both halal and traditional then you can make an inform decision for the future. There are many horror stories regarding slaughterhouses but there is also a very high amount that would not stand for any animal suffering. No one should allow an animal to be slaughtered and the meat etc to go to waste

I was under the impression that in the UK all animals have to be stunned before slaughter. I'm pretty sure there was objection to this by the Islamic community a while ago but I may have gotten my wires crossed.

@MyLittleToe www.bva.co.uk/take-action/our-policies/non-stun-slaughter/

I really don’t understand why you think this was rude. Rude to who exactly? She was expressing an opinion on a process that is quite controversial. I am not commenting on it myself as I don’t have specific knowledge but I know it is controversial and I think your colleague is allowed to have an opinion on something she sees in the canteen. I might express a preference for free range eggs, is that rude too in your mind?

Her comment was about the slaughter process, not the religion. It would be comparable to somebody saying they would never wear a kilt and you wondering if that was offensive to Scottish people.

Of course it’s cruel, should be banned. If I wanted to express it then yes I would. It’s called freedom of speech.

Almost all the halal meat slaughtered in the UK is stunned first - the risk comes in buying imported halal meat.

Truly halal meat, as the relevant religions really intended... an animal quietly and swiftly slaughtered in the field it lived in, away from the others but in a familiar place, by a quiet, respectful and calm person, I have no issue with at all.. but that isn't possible in a slaughterhouse.

However the issues with slaughterhouses are pretty much the same regardless of halal or stunning - you're moving animals long distances, to unfamiliar places, which is stressful. They can smell each others fear and distress, they can smell blood, they will pick up on distress cries and fearful behaviour from one another.

So, long story short, she's ignorant and rude.

she was tactless