to not know if this offensive?

[Catnary]

Colleague in canteen queue today, I comment that the food looks tasty. She makes a face, points to the label and says “Yeah but look, I’m not eating that!”

Label says “Halal beef casserole”.

I say “but it’s just a different way of slaughtering the cow”

”Yeah I know, that’s what I mean, it’s SO cruel. I can’t have that on my conscience.”

This was all very loud and other people overheard. Neither colleague nor I are Muslim but many other colleagues are. I felt very uncomfortable, didn’t engage, and ordered the beef.

Is this just no different to a vegetarian declaring loudly that they couldn’t possibly be so cruel as to eat meat, or is it a slur on Muslims? It felt inappropriate, especially at work.

I find it hypocritical to condemn another method of meat eating/slaughtering when one also eats meat (not really knowing exactly how these animals lived and died). She was being ignorant, to say the least.

The saying running around like a headless chicken exists for a reason, blood loss is not a quick death. If we’re talking about preferable deaths, apparently drowning is euphoric…

I said arguable, I never said with certainty one is better than the other, like I said though the death is a tiny part of animal welfare, what about the conditions they live in?

From The Guardian newspaper website

The Arabic word halal means permissible, and the rules of slaughter are based on Islamic law. The animal has to be alive and healthy, a Muslim has to perform the slaughter in the appropriate ritual manner, and the animal's throat must be cut by a sharp knife severing the carotid artery, jugular vein and windpipe in a single swipe. Blood must be drained out of the carcass.

About 40m cattle, sheep, pigs and calves and 900m poultry birds are killed in British abattoirs each year, according to a Food Standards Agency (FSA) report two years ago, and one estimate has suggested that 114m of these animals, including poultry, are killed using the halal method. The value of the market could be £2bn a year or more.

But contrary to what many assume, most animals killed by halal methods are stunned before slaughter. FSA estimates suggest that 88% of animals in the UK killed by halal methods were stunned beforehand in a way that many Muslims find religiously acceptable

Of course it’s offensive, I’d have reported to HR in your shoes.

Don’t forget AIBU (and MN in general) has a bit of a race issue so the vote won’t be representative of ‘normal’ views

She is absolutely right and if people are offended by that-tough shit.

I'm guessing hey;re not as offended as the animal.

I assume you feel equally outraged about the treatment of NON-halal farm animals? Because I certainly do.

I wouldn't eat Halal or Kosher meat, because I don't like the methods of slaughter. The methods are virtually the same, other than the prayer.

"One differentiation between Halal and Kosher is that before slaughter, Halal requires the praying to Allah. Kosher does not require a prayer to God before slaughtering."

I've got nothing against Muslims or Jews though.😗

And if we think she's a bigot because of her views, tough shit.

You happy with that? Or does it only work in one direction?

Fine, whatevs. Had to put up with people like you all my life. Thanks for outing yourself.

Well, that's good but if you're trying to say that killing an animal while still conscious and aware is as bad as killing a stunned animal who doesn't feel any pain, then you're way off beam!

Killing an animal in such a way as to cause maximum pain is fucking barbaric.

If you can't see the difference, next time you go in for an operation, tell them you'll have it without the anesthetic-you'll soon appreciate the difference.

I’m a vegetarian and I wouldn’t comment on what anybody else eats or try to force my opinion.

Halal slaughter does seem even more cruel than other methods though

I'm sure halal slaughter methods were the most humane option 1500 years ago when Mohammed was around.

The prohibition on pork is also very practical - in a hot climate it will go off more quickly (likewise shellfish for kosher laws - same principle). With modern refrigerators, it's less of a practicality and more of a tradition.

But things have moved on in the last 1500 years. If Mohammed was around today, he'd probably still be after the most humane solution and would be mandating stunning.

@SedatePixie there is no correlation between a human being put to sleep via anaesthesia and cattle being stunned with an active bolt pistol before it is slaughtered. Watch a few videos.

Firstly, the action is performed by humans, who are fallible. There are cases when animals need to be stunned several times due to human error, therefore, they are not instantly pain free.

I'm pretty sure, from @SallyWD comment that she possibly doesn't eat meat? Therefore, like me, I believe halal/kosher slaughter is no more barbaric than western ways of slaughtering - it is all barbaric.

You are all thinking about the last minutes of that poor animal's life. What about all the stress leading up to it?

Educate yourself a little. Halal/kosher slaughter is no more cruel/unnecessary than western ways of slaughter.

Active bolt stunning was meant to say *captive bolt stunning. I suggest all those who abhor halal/kosher, watch a few videos of how we slaughter - I'm pretty sure 90% of the people posting on here, exclaiming disgust about a different way of slaughter, have never looked deeply into the way the animals they're eating have been killed. Land of Hope and Glory will fix that for you.

@MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud

I'm sorry to say that your assertion about halal killing being no more cruel then western way of slaughter is out and out bullshit.

Dangerous, cruel bullshit.

Plain wrong and you can come out with as much contorted reasonings to bolster your case as you like. Anyone with half a brain can see it is bullshit.

If you're offended by that then you need to educate yourself.

Having your throat SLOWLY cut while conscious is fucking fucking appalling and defending it by saying it is no worse than an animal being stunned before being killed is straying into looney tunes territory

OP. You colleague is absolutely right. Any mealy mouthed whimpering about was she being offensive is absolutely wrong.

Around 95% of Halal animals are stunned before they are killed. Source - the RSPCA. www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter.

You're spreading dangerous, islamophobic bullshit.

Oh really!

Yes, really.

Sigh. You can prove anything with facts, can't you?

‘Around 95% of Halal animals are stunned before they are killed. Source - the RSPCA. www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter.’

Oh god- thank god. That’s make it so much better doesn’t it. Phew.

“You're spreading dangerous, islamophobic bullshit.” Nope. It’s really not. 🤦🏼‍♀️

It does make it better though, doesn't it? If your specific concern is about the animal having its throat cut while conscious (PPs refer), it makes it 20 times better.

To be clear, I'm no great carnivore - I'm essentially a veggie with occasional lapses - and I think the way we treat and consume animals is problematic. But to single out halal in the way some posters is clearly just a veiled way to have a dig at brown people islam.

I'm not sure where the 95% figure is sourced from

The Food Standards Agency, as linked to by the British Veterinary Association, says only 58% of halal slaughter involves pre-stunning, and 94 million animals per year in England are slaughtered without pre-stunning (2018 figures).

www.bva.co.uk/take-action/our-policies/non-stun-slaughter/

94 million animals a year slaughtered without stunning in England alone every year.

That's far too many.

People who eat plants kill 35 billion times as many animals as people who don't. Anyone thinking being vegan or vegetarian is less cruel is an idiot.

Anyone who think Halal or Kosher is cruel (or more cruel than mainstream slaughter) is just as stupid.

You're all happy to blindly follow what the media tell you but you're too lazy to do your own research.