“Hard, isn’t it?”

[mymycherrypie]

AIBU to find this response to someone talking about their hardship (bereavement in this case but applicable to all) condescending and a little patronising.

My friend who often has something going on and is always in the middle of a large drama or legal issue - usually of her own making - said this to a mutual friend who had recently lost someone. I felt for him somehow, something inside me cringed.

I’ve thought about it and it’s the kind of been there done that aspect of it. There’s a few responses that are similar but I can’t think of them right now.

How in gods name have you described this woman as a friend?

Demanding sympathy and empathy from her whilst labelling her stuff as ‘drama of her own making’ ?!

I suggest you wouldn’t know empathy if it landed on your face, and your friend is responding to your ‘drama’ in the same way you respond to hers.

This thing between you both is many things but friendship it most certainly isn’t.

Some people (me included here) aren’t very good with words, or knowing what’s the best way to say things. They were probably trying to be sympathetic rather than condescending. It’s not always easy to find the right things to say, or to phrase things the way you want it to come across. I’m one of those people who if someone is crying I’ll hug them and say I’m so sorry (when it’s not my fault?) , or it’s ok (when it’s clearly not ok?) and afterwards I’ll beat myself up over what I said or how the other person may have taken it, even though I’ve only meant to try and comfort them. It doesn’t help when others over analyse things like this.

I think you just don’t like her. Which may well be justified!

But I’ve heard and used that phrase.
I think you can’t just say, “it’s hard” as it sounds like you’re telling the person star they already know - that’s the patronising version! By adding, “isn’t it?” to me it feels like you’re passing the ‘expertise’ in the experience back to the person currently experiencing it. And as it’s a question form (even if not really a question) it shows you’re open to them continuing to offload to you, e.g. “yes, it really is - I’ve not slept well since etc”.

It all depends on the person and tone.

MN has taught me that many women are "friends" with people they can't stand.

It's the difference between sympathy and empathy. Although it can seem nice for someone to say, "It's hard isn't it", it can grate if the person has form for turning the spotlight onto themselves, and no one knows how anyone else feels, they only know how they themselves feel. As @RicherThanYews said, mentioning your own grief or experience can seem like making someone else's pain about you. Best to avoid comparisons.

I thought that was like acknowledging someone's pain and showing you've felt similar?

I'd rather someone said "Hard, isn't it" they are acknowledging the complex thoughts and emotions that go with grief. Allowing me to come back with a hand squeeze of a "yes, it is fecking hard". Or allowing me to ignore them or just a quick nod.
If she followed one with a twenty min rant about how bereaved she had been , fin, she would have been unreasonable. But if she had, you would have told us.

"I'm so sorry" what does that mean, you are sorry someone you did not know die, why you didn't know them. You are sorry that I am sad, sad is normal in these circumstances. It is such a banal think to say, requiring the equally banal response, "thank you (for your kind thoughts)".

It sounds empathetic to me.

If you don't like the person, then you would find fault, or unpick and overthink / analyse anything she said.
If you did like the person, then you would hear that she was trying to be kind / empathetic whatever actual words she used.

It sounds (without context or hearing the tone) like a very normal, and kind thing to say to someone, just from the phrase.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. If anything it’s quite a sympathetic thing to say, an acknowledgment that a person has an appreciation of what you’re going through because they’ve gone through the same. I’ve recently lost my dad and if someone had said that to me it would probably have made me feel less alone for a moment. If the comment had been followed up with 20 minutes of why her grief was worse than mine then that’s a different matter, but in itself I think it’s quite kind.

As pp have said I think context is all and your view is coloured by your experience of her. It was said to me when my Father died by someone whose Father had died a few weeks previously and I found it helpful - it is hard and I didn’t for one second think she was downplaying my grief but empathising.

There are at least two ways to interpret this comment, and it's not as simple as saying the OP is interpreting it in an ungenerous way just because she doesn't think much of the person. It may be just that she - someone who actually knows her and her life, unlike us - is fully aware that she isn't comparing similar griefs.

The phrase "hard, isn't it" is basically short for "I know it's hard, I too have been through it". Now if the friend has been through something similar and that's the thing she means (in this case a bereavement, probably of someone in a similar role in her life to the role the person who has just died played in the life of the person to whom she's speaking) - that's fine. It's kind, it's compassionate, it's offering to share experience and be "there" for them from someone who understands.

If what she means is something far from comparable, a) it's incredibly insensitive b) it's just a conversational pivot to get the conversation back on her.

Try these:

1. "I'm so sorry to hear about your sister, it's hard isn't it - mine died last year, if you want to talk about it I'm here."

2. "Sorry to hear about your sister, it's hard isn't it - my dog died last year."

3. "Sorry you're having a hard time, it's hard isn't it - Emma's mum has turned all the other school mums against me and that's like a bereavement in itself."

Same phrase, very different meanings. Given what the OP has said I'm imagining the context is more like 2 or even 3 than 1.

It's all context and tone.

There's the " tell me about it, I've got the tshirt " tone.

And totally inappropriate

And the " I empathise with what you're going thorough " tone.

And very sympathetic.

If you heard what she said and cringed maybe she did say it the first way.

I think we can start to find that our 'friends' are not really our friends over time. And it often creeps up on you. Maybe you are realising that with this drama vampire.

Hard to say when we don’t know the person but it sounds a bit dismissive. Maybe one of those people that much prefer to talk about themselves and their own hardships than to actually, properly listen, engage and converse.

Not an appropriate expression I think. Even though I doubt the OP would have mentioned it to us if the person concerned led a very quiet life.

It does sound a bit condescending and "been there done that", especially from the wrong person (e.g. someone well versed in one upmanship). But said in lovely sympathetic tones it could be very comforting.

Well if they have been through it, perhaps they're trying to show empathy through a "you're not alone, I've been there and you survive" your comment? , I guess it depends on tone but if think it generally a good way of empathising

I think it depends on the context. Has she also lost someone, OP?

Not recently. She still has both parents and two siblings who are kind and warm as far as I can tell. She has lost one set of grandparents as a lot of 40 year olds have. This was to our friend who lost a parent.

I cannot say too much but when one of her grandparents died she behaved in a very difficult way throughout the whole thing and was spoken to by her sister. I’d forgotten that. I suppose that counts as a drip feed but maybe it added to my reaction when she said it.

I didn’t realise grief was a top trumps competition? YABU

But is it not possible that she has been through similar? Therefore the. “Isn’t it” would be relevant. A lot of adults have experienced some bereavement.
However you have the context and know what she’s usually like so have probably read it right.

You can always tell the true AIBU to the “can everyone back me up here about how shit said person is”

It's all in the tone of voice I think - 'hard, isn't it?' could mean anything from 'I know exactly how hard this is and you have all my sympathy' to (not bereavent related!) 'that task/thing I've been struggling with and you didn't help, now you're complaining about struggling with it and it serves you right'

But I agree OP, from what you've said it sounds like this person is an elevenerife-er of misery. It sounds exasperating and tedious.

but when one of her grandparents died she behaved in a very difficult way throughout the whole thing

Well you don't sound very supportive or empathetic. I can't imagine judging someone I call friend about the way they grieve.

When my beloved grandma was dying someone said to me ‘it’s another stage of life even though it’s hard’. So f-ing insensitive, I had been holding it together for days and I literally sobbed on my kitchen floor for half an hour. My poor dog was lying across my legs as he saw how upset I was.
If I had been with you OP, I’d have said ‘I sympathise with you, you must be feeling awful. I am so sorry for your loss’. As any decent human would. You don’t have to offer help/advice, you just have to be kind.

She sounds like a self centred person. I think you’ve had enough of her haven’t you ?