Dogs capable of sending us to hospital/the morgue need to be banned

[SplishSplashIWasTakingABath]

Yet another serious dog attack.

uknip.co.uk/Breaking/News/breaking/woman-rushed-to-hospital-after-attack-by-dog-in-the-street/?fbclid=IwAR3bVa7T5KdsbfMlHZqg8CjSCFIkSVJtGYjB8iAZJ5_2C2Rv4tomNMO1ask

YANBU - ban these dogs (bully breeds, huskies, Dobermans etc)
YABU - aw, poor pibbles, must have been provoked

Apparently Labradors are amongst the highest breed recorded for bites, probably because they are one of the most commonly owned dogs

*If these owners brandish said dogs as a form of weapon as is too often the case, ridiculous status symbol and are therefore irresponsible in their ownership, the dog is logically placed in the same category of risk and harm as banned items such as guns and knives.

They need banning for the same obvious reason-risk to human life. I cannot believe this debate still rumbles on, when will we reach a stage when people see sense?*

Isn't that the point? We don't ban guns or knives - we limit how can (legally) use them and how.

This same debate happened in the 90s and breeds were banned. It did not help reduce dog attacks at all. All that happens is another breed is chosen or developed and that becomes the new dangerous dog. No one had heard of XL bullies back then and now they crop up time and time again. A newly imported breed to fill the gap created by the last round of bans.

Ban XL bullies. Something else comes along. There are large guarding breeds all over the world and the next one will be selected. There will be generations of poor breeding and neglect and we will end up with large, mentally unstable dogs again - just with a new breed name.

Ban them all over a certain size and a smaller, but equally dangerous dog will be developed.

Which is why people suggest focus on owners not the breeds. Because breed banning does not appear to offer much of a solution.

My dog is a huge GSD x Retriever. 40kg and can pull like a train. He had three people holding him down today at the vets, so that his claws could be trimmed. He reared up, managed to get out of his collar and was generally very unhappy that we were trimming his claws, but he never once growled, snarled or bit.

You can't judge a dog on their size.

Having said that, I do think that large dog owners need to appreciate the responsibility they have, because one bite from a big dog could kill someone.

Private land with public footpaths running through so they have access to the public. So basically you are saying that only landowners should have dogs? But they can have whatever breed they want and those dogs can run free whilst having public footpaths through this private land? So you would have dogs not on leads because they belong to the landowner but those dogs would still come into contact with the public who walk through the private fields? Bit of a problem with that argument 🙄

The thread is not about men and cars or anything else. Are people sooo blindsided that they feel the need to deflect rather than have a serious discussion.

“Then we ban ALL breeds that are strong enough to seriously hurt us.”

What a ridiculous comment.

You’ll have to ban labradors, German Shepards, golden retrievers, etc too as they are also big animals and capable of causing serious damage.

This is the exact point I was going to make. Bearing in mind that the amount of XL Bullies and Cane Corso in this country is probably extremely low at the moment compared to the number of labs/spaniels/collies etc etc, the percentage of fatalities or serious injuries caused by them is terrifying. Everyone who owns one insists that they are loyal and amazing pets, but that's half the issue.... their instinct to protect their environment and their "pack" . It often seems to be someone visiting who is attacked first. I know of someone who lives in a tiny 2 bed flat with their young child and an XL Bully. They have just "acquired" a cane corso puppy (cropped tail and ears 😥)Never owned dogs before. I doubt very much these animals are insured and i know for a fact they might get a short walk every now and again. It's a horrible accident waiting to happen. It isn't the dogs fault, but how can anyone and everyone be allowed to own these kind of dogs ? What's to stop this person keeping 4 or 5 in this environment ? Something definitely needs to be done but making laws and insisting on licencing doesn't stop the kind of people who are attracted to these breeds. (Apologies to those who are responsible and manage these breeds well)

@DoubleShotEspresso Because your analogy doesn’t work. Kitchen knives aren’t banned; hunting knives, machetes are banned. Guns are either banned outright or for some types only obtainable under a licence. Or in other words, not all knives and guns are treated equally under the law.

Where knives and guns are banned it’s because of their fundamental nature (not how they’re used). You can’t own a handgun or machete if you promise to undergo training in how to use it. They’re banned outright.

So why hasn’t the knife ban worked? Partly because there are plenty of knives whose nature isn’t inherently dangerous and so they aren’t caught by it eg. pen knives, kitchen knives. They’re still dangerous knives but we can’t ban all knives, as that’s not proportionate. The same is true with dogs like labradors and sausage dogs - capable of causing damage and in fact statistically more likely to do, but they don’t have a fundamentally dangerous nature. It’s about how they’re used.

To truly enforce your suggestion, you’d have to ban all dogs (and maybe all knives, actually - they’re worse than dogs!) on the basis that they’re all on the same level as handguns. And given that dogs are alive and far more widely owned than handguns, this is quite complex. This is why the debate “rumbles on”, not because everyone else is stupid and only you see the light.

Someone I know is selling puppies on FB, a litter from their female dog. They're advertised as "pocket bully" which according to Google is a cross between a bully and a patterdale terrier. It's absolute bollocks, if you scroll further down their page you see them bragging about breeding their female bully type dog with an absolutely massive American XL bully. Click on that dog owners page and he's exactly "the type" people associate with status dogs. But idiots are snapping them up without any real info or there being any regulations.

So huskies, dobermans, German shepherds, bull breeds, Akitas, Rottweilers, malamutes, mastiffs, Great Danes, newfoundlands, st Bernards, English and Irish wolfhounds, douge de bordeux, shar pei, antalonian shepherd, Leonbergers… Have I missed any out OP?

This.

And are we including mixed breeds too? That’s an awful lot of dogs to pts 🙄

Sooo you would ban most guide dogs, sniffer dogs, some sheep dogs? As they're all often medium-large breeds theoretically capable of causing a lot of damage.

Cows are the most objectively dangerous animal in the uk.

I think what we need is better education, both in dog body language and in statistics and risk in this country tbh... and since we can't even keep our education system on an even keel I'm not sure how you think we have the resources to police dog ownership!!

Not blindsided at all, just the premise that we ban anything that has the potentil to kill or harm us considering that so many things can do this besides the very rare occurence of dogs. It is a preposterous suggestion hence the ridicule.
Fundamentally it is impossible to do and won't get anywhere. The people who are irresponsible won't suddenly stop, all you will do is push the breeding or training or dangerous dogs further underground and thereby making them more appealing. All breeds of dog have the potential to harm therefore are you seriously suggesting banning ALL dog breeds 🙄?

@Largethighsbadeyes Great Danes were originally bred around 400 years ago ( they're actually a German breed ) to hunt and bring down wild boar.
That's why they're the only dog breed to have a ' thumb ' which was used to hold down the boar.
That said, they weren't trained to kill the boar, only hold it.
They were bred from mastiff types of dog, they were also used in the 18th century to protect estates and carriages by nobility.
However, over the years this has been bred out of them, hence the gentle giants name.
In over thirty years of breeding them and growing up with them, I can honestly say I've never had a bad tempered one.
That said, what has to be remembered is that dogs, irrespective of their breed are inherently pack animals and will follow the pack in attacking, which is what will have happened in the case of that poor dog walker. One attacked so the rest followed their instinct and attacked too, even the smallest gentle dog.
Irresponsible breeders coupled with irresponsible owners are the problem.
By irresponsible owners I mean the ones who, regardless of breed..
Don't know or are interested in that breed history.
Allow their dog to roam free and mostly not muzzled.
Don't attend training classes.
Don't meet the correct need of the breed they have.
Encourage the dogs bad behaviour by allowing it to ' play bite ' and ' play chase '
Allowing children to tease the dog.
They are just a small example of bad ownership.
Hence my thorough checks and demands on potential owners prior to purchase.

Go the whole hog and ban every animal that might bite 🙄

Those numbers are low and if you look at the stats for attending hospital for a dog bite it used to be labradors which had the highest number which definitely isn't a bull breed. Again bull breeds isn't the issue it's the owner and the way they train that dog. If it's seen as a status symbol/defence weapon and trained as such then that increases the liklihood significantly of that happening hence its the owner not the breed!
What that breed is changes with time as well it used to be German shepherd's, then was dobermans, then boxers, mastiffs, staffies, now bulldogs and husky breeds. The thing they all have in common is poor ownership!

A staffing before being used in this was known as the nursing dog as they are really good around children majority of staffing I know lick the death out of people with a wagging tail!

It just shows lack of knowledge of the breeds to simply blame a breed rather then the human training it!

Absolutely.

If the Am Bulldog was banned, the people who are so inadequate that they need an aggressive dog to look "hard" would just switch to another breed or crossbreed.

I would actually advocate private dog ownership for sole purpose of being a pet.
I know that's not going to happen though.

But as I said previously people should not have dogs that are stronger than them. If that dog attacks, the responsible person needs to be able to stop it before it does damage.

Sorry, advocate banning that should have been.

And how about a pet dog that works? But only part time? Gundogs only work during shooting season ie august-january. The rest of the year they don't "work" so how would you address that?

Even if you managed to pass a law banning all dogs, you’d have to either define a dog in a watertight way to capture any new crossbreed or species sourced by people desperate to own a dog (whether for nefarious reasons or otherwise), or have a list of breeds that’d need to be constantly updated. If the former you’d need to provide a route for people to either appeal their pet being so categorised or a defence to criminal prosecution on the basis that their pet doesn’t meet the critters to be defined as a dog.

The man hours would be ridiculous, and arguably for very little benefit as by the time an illegal dog comes to light it’s probably already caused the harm.

Absolutely.

On another forum, I just suggested that the Met police should become an all-female force, as they seem incapable of not letting men like Couzens and Carrick in to abuse their powers.

So sick of the ever increasing amount of dog hater posts. Bore off.