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AIBU?

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Original poster

Asked to move from relatives house

563 replies

OrangeBlankets · 14/01/2023 09:32

I've been living in a relatives house for more than 2 years. When I moved in the relative was in a care home but the person who had POA for them agreed for me to move in and said it was ok for a short time and that I didn't have to pay rent.

Now the house owner died and so did the POA. The executors want me to move out.

I don't have anywhere to go, can they evict me?

OP posts:
Flowersinspringgrowwild · 15/01/2023 23:52

ChungusBoi · 15/01/2023 23:37

As someone who managed a relative’s property in this context, I see utility (and flexibility) in having a relative who isn’t formally a paying tenant living in the elderly person’s home whilst they are away, covering the bills, maintaining it, and making up the spare room for when I travel to see my elderly relative in her care home.

If someone needs their POA to act on their behalf, you should still try to accommodate the person’s wishes if reasonably practicable. Aunt was adamant she wanted to be in her own home when well enough to cope (with carers coming in). Aunt’s medical conditions meant short spells in hospital, longer spells of recovery in a care home, and then home until the next hospitalisation, so I had to keep her own home in good order whilst she was away for when she was ready to occupy it again. Letting her home on a standard tenancy would not have been flexible enough.

To let her house out would also have taken investment greater than aunt’s rapidly dwindling savings, so I would have had to raise the money somehow - equity release against her home? and it would have taken more time than I have available to bring it up to the standard of a professional let. She had 80 years worth of stuff to go into storage for a start! And old bathroom, kitchen, tatty furniture etc, that she refused to change in any way. So those of you saying that the POA should have just let it on a market rent - it’s not always practical or even cost effective.

Hopefully this paints a picture of what can be involved.

That's a completely different scenario.

SheilaFentiman · 15/01/2023 23:55

Flowersinspringgrowwild · 15/01/2023 23:52

That's a completely different scenario.

Show quote history

It indicates a scenario where a POA might sensibly decide that a relative staying rent free but covering bills and maintenance was more suitable than spending estate money clearing out a house and sorting out commercial tenants.

Flowersinspringgrowwild · 15/01/2023 23:58

SheilaFentiman · 15/01/2023 23:55

It indicates a scenario where a POA might sensibly decide that a relative staying rent free but covering bills and maintenance was more suitable than spending estate money clearing out a house and sorting out commercial tenants.

Show quote history

Yes, where the donor of the POA still lives at home with spells away.

The GM in this scenario lived in a care home. There is absolutely no justification for allowing someone to live rent free for two years in her house.

SheilaFentiman · 16/01/2023 00:04

Suppose that the property had been left empty (on grounds that no one knew when GM would die and so didn’t want to get a fixed term tenant, get EPC certs etc). And the POA has paid baseline utilities and council tax and gardeners and occasional “housekeeper” visits to check on the place from the estate.

There would then be less money in the estate after 2 years than there is now.

Would you consider the POA had been improper in this scenario too?

saltinesandcoffeecups · 16/01/2023 00:20

SheilaFentiman · 16/01/2023 00:04

Suppose that the property had been left empty (on grounds that no one knew when GM would die and so didn’t want to get a fixed term tenant, get EPC certs etc). And the POA has paid baseline utilities and council tax and gardeners and occasional “housekeeper” visits to check on the place from the estate.

There would then be less money in the estate after 2 years than there is now.

Would you consider the POA had been improper in this scenario too?

In this case the correct fiduciary responsible step would be

A: to sell the house. The money from the sale could then be invested in a safe low risk capital preserving
or
B: Do as you say and incur normal costs of home ownership.

The correct answer isn’t allow someone to live in the house incurring wear and tear. You also can’t assume that two years with the OP living in the house with a dog hasn’t caused more than average wear and tear. To be fair I’m not saying she (or the dog) has caused excess damage.

The expenses you mention would be considered reasonable even if Granny was still living in the home.

stevec711 · 16/01/2023 00:46

Depending on where you live, they may have to serve you with a formal eviction notice.

HamBone · 16/01/2023 00:55

Given that the Grandmother is now deceased, her Attorney’s decision to let the OP live in the house is irrelevant now, as the POA dies with the individual. There’s simply no point debating the rights or wrongs of the situation now, especially as the care home fees were covered by the Grandma’s savings.

The estate’s beneficiaries can now decide what to do, as they should. As @kateandme suggested, the OP would be wise to discuss her move amicably with them and request a few months grace to find herself a new home. In return, she’ll keep the house and garden clean and tidy and continue to pay her bills.

Why fall out with your family if you don’t need to? It’ll be much easier if you cooperate with each other.

SheilaFentiman · 16/01/2023 00:57

saltinesandcoffeecups · 16/01/2023 00:20

In this case the correct fiduciary responsible step would be

A: to sell the house. The money from the sale could then be invested in a safe low risk capital preserving
or
B: Do as you say and incur normal costs of home ownership.

The correct answer isn’t allow someone to live in the house incurring wear and tear. You also can’t assume that two years with the OP living in the house with a dog hasn’t caused more than average wear and tear. To be fair I’m not saying she (or the dog) has caused excess damage.

The expenses you mention would be considered reasonable even if Granny was still living in the home.

Show quote history

Hmmm. IMO, an occupied property with bills paid would outweigh an unoccupied one without, even allowing for “wear and tear”. And holding on to property, given average house price appreciation, is a low risk “investment”.

Anyway, we are off topic and it’s bedtime.

good luck, OP, I hope Shelter can help.

Talia99 · 16/01/2023 04:14

HaroldeVwilliam · 15/01/2023 21:18

@BookishKitten ..I know.

Mn shouldn't allow it.

I've only seen rhe few on the page I posted on.

People don't understand old age! Being alone, having a fall, getting into trouble. The peace of mind ops presence was or if she had dementia she would have still been a huge support.

The relative was in a care home. The OP had the house to herself. She wasn’t providing support.

HaroldeVwilliam · 16/01/2023 06:39

@LakieLady

Yes I know. That was in response to the poster who said she had deprived the granny of rent as if an elderly lady would have a random lodger

HaroldeVwilliam · 16/01/2023 06:49

@saltinesandcoffeecups

I suppose the bottom line is that the ethos of the site, MN is supposed to be helpful.
Are your posts helpful in anyway? How is the op being helped because it feels more like a court of judgement?
Why do you feel it's ok fo take this judgement upon yourself?

WandaWonder · 16/01/2023 07:14

LakieLady · 15/01/2023 22:41

As you haven't bothered even to read the OP's posts, you won't be aware that she has MH issues and says that she has got a job "now", implying that she didn't have one before. It's not a giant leap to think these 2 things may be connected.

If the OP wasn't working, she would only have been getting a little over £300 a month, barely enough to pay the bills on the house and keep herself.

I suspect that she may not have been in a position to "accumulate" any money, and even if she was, her MH issues may well have meant that she was not in a position to make such rational decisions and plan ahead.

There seem to be an awful lot MNers who have little conception of how MH issues can make it very difficult to make the sort of wise choices that those of us who are blessed with good MH make without really thinking. There's a sizeable empathy vacuum on this thread.

Show quote history

MH issues can explain how someone feels or feels towards a situation but using MH does not give the op more right to live there

And complaining about the people involved

There is only so long people can jusy go 'I have MH so situations should be changed to suit me' people have given good advice if the op doesn't take it then I am not sure what the answer is for the op

Sausagenbacon · 16/01/2023 07:52

Why do you feel it's ok fo take this judgement upon yourself?
Who made you Head Girl of mumsnet, Harolde? Do you have any special qualifications to allow you to tell us all how mn should be done?

MichelleScarn · 16/01/2023 08:00

HaroldeVwilliam · 16/01/2023 06:49

@saltinesandcoffeecups

I suppose the bottom line is that the ethos of the site, MN is supposed to be helpful.
Are your posts helpful in anyway? How is the op being helped because it feels more like a court of judgement?
Why do you feel it's ok fo take this judgement upon yourself?

@HaroldeVwilliam is being 'helpful' only so if it agrees with what an op wants to hear now? So so many threads like this now!
Would it be more helpful to say 'yes yes op you are being treated so unfairly, you absolutely should have been left money in the will/be given the house/get to live there rent free?...
Because that's not realistic at all!

Flowersinspringgrowwild · 16/01/2023 08:10

HaroldeVwilliam · 16/01/2023 06:39

@LakieLady

Yes I know. That was in response to the poster who said she had deprived the granny of rent as if an elderly lady would have a random lodger

It’s not a lodger is it, she didn’t live there anymore!

Christ it’s no wonder so many people get taken to court over type of shit. God help any of you if you end up in a care home with dementia being absolutely fleeced by relatives who don’t even like you

Sausagenbacon · 16/01/2023 08:11

Fwiw the problem is that this has been posted in aibu. Perhaps, for more serious advice, the op should have gone to the Legal board.
Imo, aibu (sorry about the excess acronyms) is about moral issues. So the response wasn't just about 'can I stay', but 'should I stay'. And the overwhelming response was 'no'. Which I agree with.
When posters complain about aibu, it's generally because the responses haven't gone their way, and because they posted in the wrong board in the 1st place.

MichelleScarn · 16/01/2023 08:26

Legal would have been much better. Especially some of the advice given here such as 'contest the will' 'you can claim from the estate as you've been living in the house so you're now classed as a 'dependent' 'Confused

Florissant · 16/01/2023 08:40

Siepie · 15/01/2023 22:30

The grandmother was in a care home. The OP wasn't living with her.

Show quote history

And certainly wasn't providing her with companionship - the OP has described her grandmother as "not very nice" and said that she was omitted from the Will.

Florissant · 16/01/2023 08:42

SheilaFentiman · 15/01/2023 23:55

It indicates a scenario where a POA might sensibly decide that a relative staying rent free but covering bills and maintenance was more suitable than spending estate money clearing out a house and sorting out commercial tenants.

Show quote history

Your post assumes facts not in evidence.

Shanda5 · 16/01/2023 09:05

They could evict you in any circumstances but as you haven't been paying rent, you are an excluded occupier. Therefore no court order is required.

Robinni · 16/01/2023 09:34

@OrangeBlankets agree with all the recent comments about this needing to be on legal advice and that you should seek legal advice re. Whether you have a claim on Grandmothers estate and on how to handle the current situation you find yourself in. Take care.

Darkoutsideclosethecurtains · 16/01/2023 09:50

OP sorry to hear you're going to have to move out of your grandmother's house. To wind up her estate Executors will have to sell the house if it hasn't been left to a beneficiary. You urgently need legal advice as PPs have said. Please ignore the nasty judgemental comments on here. Have to wonder if those same posters are as nasty irl. Good luck

YungGrandma · 16/01/2023 10:15

What a shock for you, posting on here might not be good for your mental health as people can be /are quite harsh and assuming and expect others to be able to function like ‘we’re supposed to’ 😒
I know renting is hard at the moment and prices have risen so even if you have a deposit, it’s not a guaranteed thing that you can afford the monthly rent in a new place so that could be overwhelming for you. If you’re stuck and facing homelessness then your local council have a duty to house you, wether temporarily or permanently depending on your situation, I’d call them and explain that you are being made homeless due to the home owners death, citizens advice could help you too as there’s no way you can stay there now sadly. But try and trust that things are working out for your highest good! I wish you well. 🍀

Covermeinsunshine · 16/01/2023 10:21

It’s easy to bury your head when your mental health isn’t as it should be.

I hope you find a solution, and somewhere to live with your dog. Charities like Dogs Trust and Cinnamon Trust can help with finding a fostered for your dog whilst you get settled in your new place. I work with local charities who also do the same sometimes, so please feel free to DM me if you have no luck with the charities I’ve mentioned.

You might want to consider looking for a job with accommodation. There’s a group on FB for this www.facebook.com/groups/166550761962629/?ref=share

Just ensure that someone knows exactly where you are living and working.

There are lots of groups out there who will give advice, support and guidance. Mumsnet isn’t always the place for that, but please don’t mind the judgmental replies… they have come from people who have also made mistakes, don’t know the answer to everything but sadly have lost their compassion.

Good luck

mustgetoffmn · 16/01/2023 10:54

Theluggage15 · 14/01/2023 10:25

So you can afford to pay rent then? Just rent somewhere else.

Yes this. It’s unfortunate that you’ve not understood what has been happening and what is in front of you. I can see getting a dog in your situation was a comfort but I’m surprised it didn’t occur to you that there would be ongoing issues with this. You say you have MH and have been unwell have you had no support for this? Therefore somewhere to go to for further support? Your GP practice ought to have contact details of a place you can go. Realise things are difficult at the moment. Also you need to contact Shelter as others have said. Don’t be unreasonable with the Executor and beneficiaries. Squatting will just increase your problems. Decide on a reasonable date 3 months eg to get yourself sorted and present this to them. Hopefully if they are selling there will be time for this but at the point of exchange a date will be made for buyers to become owners and they will need you out. Good luck be nice!