Page 2 | Someone who has an unplanned pregnancy has just as much of a right to express feelings feelings of shock and emotion as someone who deals with infertility that wants to share their struggles/sadness

lemesser6 · 2023-01-14T02:31:54+00:00

We both have our feelings to work through. one is not greater than the other. i for tile people can share their sadness and people who have a suppress pregnancy can share their shock. If their unexpected upsets you then i've got news for you. It seems like women who gave unplanned pregnancies are shamed to oblivion fir even mentioning "it was just so unexpected!" "we're not even trying" "i was just so surprised when i found out" why? why am i not allowed to express these feelings to others, just as infertile people express their struggles to others. Although i obviously understand both sides can be traumatic, you don't have to hold space for everyone/every situation. If you are going through infertility it's totally ok to scroll past the post, block that person, or if it's said in real life flat out tell them " that sounds really hard and i care about you but i am NOT the person the person to come to about this". Although i don't think it's right to make a nasty comment or scold your real life friend. I think people should obviously talk to SOMEONE ELSE about how that made you feel like your partner, mum, neutral friend or a therapist. As you can see i that was a bit of a rant but i just needed to get it off my chest because my friend has really upset me but i don't want to go into details.

Eyerollcentral · 14/01/2023 05:07

Angliski · 14/01/2023 03:15

This.

plus us infertiles also wonder, with astonishment, how grown adults, have forgotten how children are made and have, mostly, failed to take precautions and then been astonished at the result.

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Most surprise babies I know of, and I can think of at least 20 off the top of my head, were conceived due to contraceptive failure. I’m astonished most adults don’t know that no contraceptive is 100% effective 🤷‍♀️You must know a lot more reckless shaggers than me

Tandora · 14/01/2023 05:18

Oh good Lord. No 1- Being “surprised” because “we weren’t even trying” doesn’t even remotely compare to the trauma and pain of infertility.
No.2, did you know your friend was struggling with getting pregnant ? If so , you are awful. If not , then it wasn’t your fault and your friend has no right to be angry or “nasty”, but it’s perfectly fine for her to let you know it hurt and not to discuss that with her.

Tandora · 14/01/2023 05:24

Also if I were your friend I certainly wouldn’t be saying “that sounds really hard”, because I probably wouldn’t think it sounds hard at all and that would be disingenuous.

Untitledsquatboulder · 14/01/2023 05:25

BigChesterDraws · 14/01/2023 04:37

Unplanned pregnancy? Do you need a diagram to help understand how it happened? If you’re having sex, a baby is always a possible outcome. No contraception is perfect.

Don't be dim. If you travel by car then a rta is always possible. Doesn't mean you can't be shocked when one occurs.

OP YABU to the point of callousness to express you shock at being pregnant to an infertile friend. They shouldn't have to tell you that they are not the right audience you should know that.

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 14/01/2023 05:33

I agree with OP, one person's feelings shouldn't trump the other's.

Someone upthread said that no one cares about your pregnancy except you, but this also applies the other way - no one cares about your infertility except you. The difference is that some people in one of the above categories takes it extremely personally despite it being no one's right to have children. Some people can and some people can't, that's just life but there seems to be a lot of people that can't deal with it.

I personally didn't tell anyone about my pregnancy until it was very noticeable because it was no one else's business that I was having a baby. Equally I expect to not have other people's feelings about their infertility thrust on me. No one knew that both me and my partner had been told we were likely infertile years ago because we'd never imposed that information on people.

OP if your friend is happy to upset you over your views and thinks hers trumps yours, then it might be time to drop them if they won't be reasonable.

I had a friend who I suspect was infertile (cancer treatments for many years when young etc) who went low contact when she found out I had a child. She knew I never wanted children and I knew she did, but that's all - I wasn't privy to any deep feelings she held on this and ditto the other way around because these feelings are private. Her issues are non of my business but I'd have been happy to listen to her discuss some of the them with me. However, if she'd have acted like her feelings were more important than mine, I'd have taken that as a sign that our friendship was no longer viable.

It's wrong that we have to tiptoe around just in case we unintentionally hurt someone else's feelings. As OP said, just talk to someone else about your inability to deal with something, rather than taking it out on the person who is dealing with their own issue.

Porridgeislife · 14/01/2023 05:43

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 14/01/2023 05:33

I agree with OP, one person's feelings shouldn't trump the other's.

Someone upthread said that no one cares about your pregnancy except you, but this also applies the other way - no one cares about your infertility except you. The difference is that some people in one of the above categories takes it extremely personally despite it being no one's right to have children. Some people can and some people can't, that's just life but there seems to be a lot of people that can't deal with it.

I personally didn't tell anyone about my pregnancy until it was very noticeable because it was no one else's business that I was having a baby. Equally I expect to not have other people's feelings about their infertility thrust on me. No one knew that both me and my partner had been told we were likely infertile years ago because we'd never imposed that information on people.

OP if your friend is happy to upset you over your views and thinks hers trumps yours, then it might be time to drop them if they won't be reasonable.

I had a friend who I suspect was infertile (cancer treatments for many years when young etc) who went low contact when she found out I had a child. She knew I never wanted children and I knew she did, but that's all - I wasn't privy to any deep feelings she held on this and ditto the other way around because these feelings are private. Her issues are non of my business but I'd have been happy to listen to her discuss some of the them with me. However, if she'd have acted like her feelings were more important than mine, I'd have taken that as a sign that our friendship was no longer viable.

It's wrong that we have to tiptoe around just in case we unintentionally hurt someone else's feelings. As OP said, just talk to someone else about your inability to deal with something, rather than taking it out on the person who is dealing with their own issue.

Bring told you “might” be infertile is very very different to actually being infertile.

Going through infertility treatment is very tough & I’d hate for a dear friend to think she couldn’t share with me, same as if they were going through any other kind of trauma. You don’t sound like a very caring person.

Whatmarbles · 14/01/2023 05:52

This is like comparing apples to pears.

I'm feeling a little sorry for your infertile friend if you have used her as your sounding board. It is rather tone deaf to her feelings ☹️

MichelleScarn · 14/01/2023 05:58

Astaphorial · 14/01/2023 02:47

From my it would be like 'ffuuuuuuuukkkk! Why couldn't it just be cancer?!'

Which would probably offend a great many people. But fuck them, it's my body not theirs and I'm allowed to feel however I want.

You're equating finding out you're pregnant with being told you have cancer?
At least you can recognise thats offensive.
(And horrifically cruel).

sanityisamyth · 14/01/2023 05:59

michellet86 · 14/01/2023 02:33

Apologies for some of the typos

Why name change after 2 mins of writing the OP. And if you didn't, why are you apologising for someone else?

sanityisamyth · 14/01/2023 06:00

Changechangychange · 14/01/2023 02:54

It’s fine to express all of that, but not to somebody who is going through infertility. Just as it is fine for a millionaire to stress about the best investment vehicle for their savings, but if they are complaining about this to somebody using a foodbank, they can’t really expect a positive response. And fine to complain about your mum ringing you too much, but not to somebody whose own mother has just died the week before.

OP, you have clearly being discussing your surprise pregnancy with your infertile friend, and she’s gone off at you. Entirely predictable, take your own advice and choose your audience more wisely next time.

This.

LBFseBrom · 14/01/2023 06:00

I don't see the need to discuss it with anyone other than your nearest and dearest, who else wants to know anyway? They'll find out soon enough when you grow.

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 14/01/2023 06:03

@Porridgeislife but the OP isn't about whether the friend could share or not, it's about the fact her friend believes her feelings are more important than OP's and has upset her due to this. Now that's not very caring of her is it?

ChillysWaterBottle · 14/01/2023 06:08

YANBU

Ericaequites · 14/01/2023 06:13

@Eyerollcentral I’m proof you can get pregnant the first cycle off the Pill.

Logicpuzzle · 14/01/2023 06:13

Yes you can express your upset and any emotions related to your situation. I'm struggling with infertility second time round which I appreciate isn't the same as having no kids. Sometimes I'm distraught.

But... That's because I'm fortunate and I want a child. I have the life circumstances that mean I'm ready for another child and my body isn't.

If someone gets pregnant unexpectedly they may not want kids or not be ready emotionally or financially or not have a partner who is ready. What a difficult situation to be in. How can anyone not see this.

No point in blaming you. Would you blame me for my infertility. It's because I have pcos and had a poor diet and bad stress management that exacerbated it in the past and left it a bit late to achieve my dreams . But no one would dare say this would they, so don't judge people with unplanned pregnancies.

However, you also have to pick your audience. I don't complain about my difficulties gaining weight to someone struggling to lose weight. My struggles are not less valid. But talking about them would trigger that person so I wouldn't do that. Plenty of fertile people to talk to about it.

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/01/2023 06:16

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 14/01/2023 06:03

@Porridgeislife but the OP isn't about whether the friend could share or not, it's about the fact her friend believes her feelings are more important than OP's and has upset her due to this. Now that's not very caring of her is it?

Op’s unplanned pregnancy can be dealt with, infertility cannot. It’s like comparing apples and oranges. Dh and I had unexplained infertility and I managed to get pregnant via IVF ( after a few failed attempts). That was painful enough and I would have been incredibly hurt by anyone announcing an unwanted pregnancy and being demanding of my attention because of it. Read the room!

StalkedByASpider · 14/01/2023 06:18

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 14/01/2023 05:33

I agree with OP, one person's feelings shouldn't trump the other's.

Someone upthread said that no one cares about your pregnancy except you, but this also applies the other way - no one cares about your infertility except you. The difference is that some people in one of the above categories takes it extremely personally despite it being no one's right to have children. Some people can and some people can't, that's just life but there seems to be a lot of people that can't deal with it.

I personally didn't tell anyone about my pregnancy until it was very noticeable because it was no one else's business that I was having a baby. Equally I expect to not have other people's feelings about their infertility thrust on me. No one knew that both me and my partner had been told we were likely infertile years ago because we'd never imposed that information on people.

OP if your friend is happy to upset you over your views and thinks hers trumps yours, then it might be time to drop them if they won't be reasonable.

I had a friend who I suspect was infertile (cancer treatments for many years when young etc) who went low contact when she found out I had a child. She knew I never wanted children and I knew she did, but that's all - I wasn't privy to any deep feelings she held on this and ditto the other way around because these feelings are private. Her issues are non of my business but I'd have been happy to listen to her discuss some of the them with me. However, if she'd have acted like her feelings were more important than mine, I'd have taken that as a sign that our friendship was no longer viable.

It's wrong that we have to tiptoe around just in case we unintentionally hurt someone else's feelings. As OP said, just talk to someone else about your inability to deal with something, rather than taking it out on the person who is dealing with their own issue.

I had a friend who eventually dropped all contact with me when I became pregnant and had the babies (twins). It was a slow fade but became obvious.

We were friends but also worked together and she was deeply unpleasant to/about me when I was pregnant. I'm not normally a pushover but I bit my tongue because I and everyone around us knew that her words came from a place of deep, deep hurt. She'd had five miscarriages in fairly quick succession. She was absolutely broken emotionally and then I came along, fell pregnant accidentally - with twins just to rub salt into the wound! - and then to cap it all, I split up with my ex (who vanished into the sunset).

So to her mind it was deeply unfair that I had the chance to bring up babies when I wasn't even in a relationship whereas she was older, more financially secure and just in a better position all round. The unfairness of it all made her very bitter.

I really mourn the friendship as we were close friends. But actually I get it. I knew how much she was hurting before I fell pregnant and although I did my best to be sensitive, seeing my belly growing bigger, and then the babies, it was just all too much. And I get that. Must have been fucking awful for her. Maybe if she'd gone on to have a baby she could have healed and we'd have gotten back together as friends but she couldn't face any more attempts. Genuinely heartbreaking story and I still think about her regularly even though we've now not spoken in 12 years.

Spyral · 14/01/2023 06:19

sanityisamyth · 14/01/2023 05:59

Why name change after 2 mins of writing the OP. And if you didn't, why are you apologising for someone else?

Show quote history

I noticed this. I think it's a name change fail on the part of the OP...

@lemesser6 @michellet86 ??

tenbob · 14/01/2023 06:19

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 14/01/2023 05:33

I agree with OP, one person's feelings shouldn't trump the other's.

Someone upthread said that no one cares about your pregnancy except you, but this also applies the other way - no one cares about your infertility except you. The difference is that some people in one of the above categories takes it extremely personally despite it being no one's right to have children. Some people can and some people can't, that's just life but there seems to be a lot of people that can't deal with it.

I personally didn't tell anyone about my pregnancy until it was very noticeable because it was no one else's business that I was having a baby. Equally I expect to not have other people's feelings about their infertility thrust on me. No one knew that both me and my partner had been told we were likely infertile years ago because we'd never imposed that information on people.

OP if your friend is happy to upset you over your views and thinks hers trumps yours, then it might be time to drop them if they won't be reasonable.

I had a friend who I suspect was infertile (cancer treatments for many years when young etc) who went low contact when she found out I had a child. She knew I never wanted children and I knew she did, but that's all - I wasn't privy to any deep feelings she held on this and ditto the other way around because these feelings are private. Her issues are non of my business but I'd have been happy to listen to her discuss some of the them with me. However, if she'd have acted like her feelings were more important than mine, I'd have taken that as a sign that our friendship was no longer viable.

It's wrong that we have to tiptoe around just in case we unintentionally hurt someone else's feelings. As OP said, just talk to someone else about your inability to deal with something, rather than taking it out on the person who is dealing with their own issue.

You have a deeply, deeply weird idea of friendship if you think it means no other human being should ‘thrust’ their feelings or opinions on you. “Her issues are none of my business”.
What do you actually get out of friendships if you have a red line that no one should ever share any sort of issue or problem with you?

That is one of the coldest, oddest posts I’ve ever read on MN…

Eyerollcentral · 14/01/2023 06:20

Ericaequites · 14/01/2023 06:13

@Eyerollcentral I’m proof you can get pregnant the first cycle off the Pill.

Lol listen I know several proofs you can get pregnant ON the pill!!

DancinOnTheCeiling · 14/01/2023 06:22

Everyone is entitled to their feelings of course but the difference between infertility and a surprise pregnancy is that in the latter case you have two options to choose from that can be achieved fairly quickly: to either continue the pregnancy or terminate.. so you can relatively easily change the situation you’re unhappy about by having a termination (not saying that’s easy of course but it is an option and can relatively quickly result in your preferred choice: to not be pregnant). An infertile person doesn’t have that option so has to continue living with the cause of their unhappiness without choice of changing the situation. Not sure if I’m explaining it well. And I’m not meaning to be dismissive about a termination which of course can/is often traumatic even if the pregnancy wasn’t wanted but I still think it gives you a choice that an inferior person doesn’t have..

DancinOnTheCeiling · 14/01/2023 06:31

DancinOnTheCeiling · 14/01/2023 06:22

Everyone is entitled to their feelings of course but the difference between infertility and a surprise pregnancy is that in the latter case you have two options to choose from that can be achieved fairly quickly: to either continue the pregnancy or terminate.. so you can relatively easily change the situation you’re unhappy about by having a termination (not saying that’s easy of course but it is an option and can relatively quickly result in your preferred choice: to not be pregnant). An infertile person doesn’t have that option so has to continue living with the cause of their unhappiness without choice of changing the situation. Not sure if I’m explaining it well. And I’m not meaning to be dismissive about a termination which of course can/is often traumatic even if the pregnancy wasn’t wanted but I still think it gives you a choice that an inferior person doesn’t have..

I meant ‘infertile’ person

donttellmehesalive · 14/01/2023 06:54

For me, the difference is that my infertile friends have tried every possible way to have a baby. They have spent years of their life trying to conceive, and a lot of money. They are devastated by the whole experience and running out of options.

That does not compare in any way to someone who discovers an unexpected pregnancy. It is likely they didn't use contraception, or use it properly. And, however the pregnancy occurred, there is always the option to end it.

Nalaaslan · 14/01/2023 06:54

Two non comparable situations.

mymeatballsmymeatballs · 14/01/2023 06:56

HelterSkelter224 · 14/01/2023 03:13

You're absolutely being unreasonable. The difference is, infertile people expressing their sadness doesn't inflict pain on you. You can listen and empathise but otherwise move on with your life.

You ranting about an unplanned pregnancy to someone who would give anything to be in your shoes inflicts pain on that person. It reminds them that their body has continually failed them and they might never have what you have. It's likely that if you announced a pregnancy and we're happy about it they'd be sad for themselves but happy for you. You've no idea how many times that person has had to deal with those emotions.

It's painful to know that the thing that has consumed their entire being and every aspect of their lives for potentially years can happen so easily for others, and then for you to wish it hadn't happened can feel like a kick in the stomach. They might understand the difficulty you're facing and be able to sympathise but they'll have a hard time separating their own feelings because infertility is all-consuming and lonely and painful, for years.

As others have said, by all means be upset about this life-changing news. But choose your audience. And be kinder to your friend.

This. So perfectly put.