To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

I kind of get you OP. Life can be really tough for people on average incomes, especially recently. However, I think you are probably grossly overestimating how good people on benefits have it.

Yes OP it's shit, as a society we ought to be helping parents through those early years which are really tough but too many people in this country have the attitude of "don't have kids if you can't afford them".

Quite, but any one with any sense in the last two years when purchasing or remortgaging a property would have thought hmmm interest rates are going to go up, can I afford that? People have closed their eyes to this and I get why, renting or buying trying to get and keep a place to live for the last couple of years has been extremely difficult. People are not owed a cheap mortgage.

I do agree with a PP that those with secure social housing have it on the discretion
if the current political party. These things can certainly change in the future so it’s as stable as the system allows it to be. All it will take is the political will to change this and suddenly everything turns on its head.

It depends on income, outgoings and level of family support.

DH and I don’t have much spare disposable cash because of buying our home in a nice but expensive area, and paying for 4 days per weeks of nursery (we don’t qualify for 30 hours). My family are 40 mins away, so there in an emergency (thank goodness) but that’s only since we moved here, and they can’t do regular childcare (too worn out and still working), so we pay for it all. We haven’t had a holiday for 5 years, run one cheap used car, have no debt aside from big mortgage, paid for our own wedding and all usual big outgoings since adulthood. But, we are well paid - and we chose to move to a nice area for schools/quality of life.

On the other hand DBIL and his wife live in a very cheap part of the country, earn a lot less than us but have a decent sized 4 bed house, had a £10k(!) holiday to Disney last year, but have all the grandparents nearby so only pay for two days of childcare a week, and get more free hours.

Its 50:50 - genuinely hard now for the poorest, lower paid and actual squeezed middle. But I don’t feel sorry for better off people like me and DH - yes, we have high outgoings, no we don’t have flashy lives or spare money, but we chose this - we didn’t have to. And that’s the difference.

It’s typically not now in many local authorities. Older tenancies tended to be lifetime tenancies because the focus was on creating cohesive communities not rinsing the property market.

@Eyerollcentral

I understand it must sound glib. I think working in care does that to you. I mean it certainly did change my perspective on a few things that’s for sure. I don’t work in care now. I couldn’t deal with the lack of quality care that seemed to be pretty much across the board. Every day was a moral injury to myself. I even went via an agency so I could be posted to many different homes to check the standards out (I never wanted to be a complicit accomplice in an abusive home) but at the same time I was interested in working in the industry and potentially going into management.

Of course they deserve to be stimulated. I guess the point i was trying to make was rich or poor in my opinion the quality of care that you will receive is a bit of a gamble so it’s not something I really concern myself with on a daily basis. Like I said all care homes have problems with staffing (hence the problems we currently face in the NHS due to a lack of social care) and a lack of staff means a lack of stimulation.

YANBU

I think it really depends on earnings potential/actual earnings.

Working full time in a job you hate for NMW is naturally going to be soul destroying compared to doing a job you may (or may not love, the two don’t always go hand in hand). But if the job has a decent or high wage then it will clearly give you a much nicer lifestyle than someone claiming benefit.

Actually what I should have said is I get extremely pissed off with these ridiculous posts from people with NO IDEA ho think living on benefits in a rented home with food banks to provide and leckie on the pre paid card is eutopia.

Wake up and realise how incredibly privileged you have it with owning a home, salary etc. etc. what a tone deaf post!

You went into your overdraft for the first time in 6- 7 years.... oh my gosh you have no idea of what others have to suffer do you. Listen to yourself and think how lucky you are.

Yep.... "OlleOskiFelle · Today 20:27
I live on disability benefits, swap with me if you like, it's great fun.
ignorant fool"

Do people on benefits with illness, disability and disadvantage get fed up with these ridiculous twats and their... I'm own a home and have some bills to pay and went overdrawn once in 7 years total twat posts...

Please ban me from mumsnet and the ridiculous twattish posts of the wealthy twats that have no idea how luck they are posts

I cannot blame you for moving out of care work and I have seen first hand the treatment of staff and the toll failing standards can take on their physical and mental health in my professional life. It’s underpaid and undervalued work that is so essential to the care and safety of the elderly.

I genuinely feel so proud of how hard we work as a family and wouldn’t ever want to consider any other way (although I think there should be a benefits safety net there for those who genuinely need it). My kids see 2 parents doing everything they possibly can to work hard for them. Children need to see that and to learn the only way to earn things is through hard work. You can feel massive pride at how hard you work and the values you are instilling in your daughter.

Oh do piss off. People have to buy or remortgage whether they can afford it or not. Because there's nowhere else to fucking live!
But certain people's nans are absolutely owed a cheap house.... hypocrite.

The DAILY MAIL crap divide and rule... resent and be jealous of people on benefits whilst forgetting the ones who actually are the problem an destroy the economy .... keep on voting TORY and stop moaning... people on benefits are the problem...stoke the jealously and forget where the REAL PROBLEM WITH SOCIETY LIES... the greedy 1% at the top...

I get where you are coming from I have 2 in nursery which is more than my DHs wage technically we would be better off if he didn't work. But it would then be finding pension contributions and make it difficult for when the early years were over.

Can you do a condensed week so you get a extra off with your daughter?

And? I literally can’t think of a more important thing for you to spend your money on.,

Ha ha ha ha well said

Yes! It is benefit bashing. They are miserable and it is benefit claimants fault. If only we just gEt A JOb, and somehow overnight be a productive member of society.

It doesn’t matter what situation you’re in so the arguments are pretty irrelevant.

The fact is that the quality of life for most people in this country is quite poor compared to, say, the Scandinavian countries who have more equality of earnings and a better work/life balance.

People on Mumsnet are absolutely obsessed with ‘work ethic’ blah blah. What even is a work ethic? People work to make money for themselves - not to contribute to society. People who work really hard are working really hard to make more money for their own family and we’re meant to admire that.

id much rather they allowed euthanasia at that point and the proceeds of my house went to my children please. Fuck the care home.

@XenoBitch

exactly... the MN approach is bash the people at the bottom... it's their fault that I have less to spend and cannot afford a holiday/pay bills/buy expensive wines... blah blah blah blah....

Meanwhile.... at the top 1% .... Look at the idiots on MN, Daily Mail, etc etc... they are so STUPID... they bash each other and blame each other and go after people on benefits queuing for a foodbank and the dumb FOOLS think they might be better on benefits.... STUPID IDIOTS ... as long as they are jealous of those at the bottom they will forget that US at the top are the REAL PROBLEM

You also get your rent paid on top of that. I know, I was in that situation.

Yanbu. Benefits shouldn't be an option for people to choose not to work. I can understand we can't allow children to go hungry because their parents don't want to work though, so sadly benefits need to be given, even if it makes irresponsible people better off than those working full time.