To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

Weren’t you also on the social housing thread saying old people should be slung out of their homes in to one bed flats

Now there's a surprise.

And that they did not believe in people claiming benefits for MH issues.

The trick is to start out on benefits/council place, then get a career. I was at home with my DC till they started school. Didn’t have a lot of money but it was ok and I got to spend that time with them. Then part time work plus benefit top ups while they were at primary gave us a decent standard of living. Then I got a career.

I have a lifetime tenancy on a lovely big house I would never have afforded to buy myself, reasonable rent, so now I have plenty of disposable income. No major repairs to pay for so I’ve spent a lot on the interior of the house so it’s really nice. Go on holiday several times a year. In retirement either housing benefit will pay my rent or I could rent out a spare room for the same as my monthly rent cost (desirable area).

I don’t regret a thing. It doesn’t work out that way for everyone but you can make it work in your favour if you’re determined. I did a series of exchanges to get the house I wanted. I played the system in my favour but I did work for it too. That’s life as far as I’m concerned, you play the hand you’re dealt.

So, you’re not being wholly unreasonable. We are told there is one right way to do things but for many a mortgage is a noose around their neck. They kid themselves they have this “asset” but as you say, you can be forced to sell it to pay for your care. And at the cost of 1k plus per week for a care home that money runs out quickly.

Could I just say, no one is forced to get a mortgage. Unfortunately investments in property can go up and down, as with any investment. People have gotten too used to low interest rates and many who previously enjoyed a high standard of living are now finding with the impact of various economic pressures they aren’t quite as secure as they once were. Attacking those in receipt of benefits isn’t going to cut inflation, cut interest rates, lower utility prices or increase your take home pay, but there seems to be a lot of it around.

Perhaps you should say what your household income actually is? Might make it easier to compare with Jobseeker’s Allowance etc. I very much doubt you would be better off as a single working partner time l. It’s much more cost effective to live as a couple. Unless your oh is a very high earner and you mean because of the maintenance. Of course that’s not guaranteed though as he may want 50:50 and then no maintenance is payable or he might hide his income or simply refuse to pay. All of those are pretty common and leave you funding a house and childcare on your own

Completely disagree, think about the long game... Have a house that even at the bottom end is £100k likely several times that, have a pension that pays you an income at retirement on too of anything the state pays, likely have some form of savings once the kids are a little older and ost nursery, have had holidays and experiences/memories that others haven't and never be at the whim of a landlord completely upheaving your place of residence.

On top of being able to properly decorate whenever you want, build extensions, add value to your own property etc. It's not just owning a house that helps you 'win', it's the advantages that come with it.

let's say you're in your late 30s, you're stuck in a bit of a rut but the end is in sight in 10 years when the kids are older. You have a future to look forward to and a path to financial security. Would you prefer that or worrying about how you're going to pay rent when you're 60/70/80? I sure wouldn't so stop being a martyr and whining about what you've got because you're privileged, you're just too self absorbed to realise it.

@Eyerollcentral

Preferable yes but having worked as a carer I can honestly say some of the best care I have seen has been in deprived areas and in homes that look like they’ve seen better days. One factor being they can staff their homes better with local workers. When the home is lovely but out in the sticks it can be a nightmare for staff to get in and agency staff don’t even bother. I’ve seen it all to be honest. I’ve seen abusive care in deprived homes, good care in good homes and vice versa. I think it’s a bit of luck whatever side of the fence you sit on and it has a lot to do with how profit based the care company is/and also how effective management is.

Sometimes CQC comes down heavily on the council homes and they are heavily monitored. Likewise the glossier homes out in the sticks are often monitored less with an incredibly closed culture amongst the staff. I guess the sector is incredibly fragmented and yes if you are truly demented, would you really care if you were in a grim communal hall or sitting opposite an attractive water feature?

Who knows, I’m hoping once they get sick of paying for people’s care they’ll finally introduce euthanasia 😜. Problem solved lol. 😂

So get divorced, live in a council house and claim benefits. See if your happier. 🙄

You would only be better off if you didn't have your husbands income. So yes you would be worse off on benefits and not owning a home, not have the benefit of a work pension. You wouldn't have a choice where you lived or the area your children would grow up in. People think those on benefits have some easy life. That's really not the case

I know a family who’s children have moved 3 times because of homelessness in 6 months.3 different school 3 lots of uniformThere are no social housing for families unless you are homeless you will not be offered anythng.Even in a hostel the housing officer will bid for you so you are forced to take what you are given.There is no choice less you are very lucky.This is the West Country other places are the same.At least with a mortgage you have some choice where you live.Yes it is hard but you will get through it.

@Cuppasoupmonster what do you see as the alternative? How do you plan to live and support yourself? Why is this anyone else's responsibility?

I didn’t say anything about deprived areas. I said having no money removed choice. And most of the people I have known personally and professionally in that position have not ended up in a fantastic places with fantastic standards. That’s my experience. I’m not criticising your mum or indeed any care home staff. I know many care home staff and so many of them are wonderful. They do a job I couldn’t do for an hour.
I know you probably don’t mean to be so glib but it is horrible and inaccurate to say if you suffer from dementia do you care if you are staring at a wall. People are entitled to be treated with dignity and being in an unstimulating environment is detrimental to the health of dementia sufferers.

For all of those who are saying if you don’t like the system, give up work and go on benefits too, who is going to pay for all the benefits if we all do that?? It won’t be the rich as they can hide a lot of their assets and it won’t be the likes of Amazon.

It shouldn’t be an option to not work or only work the minimum 16 hours if you’re at all physically and intellectually able unless you can support yourself or have someone to support you.

Still, at least we can hold our heads up high and are setting a good example for our children. When I need a care home, I’ll just go off to Switzerland so that DS can have the house.

One word @Cuppasoupmonster PRIDE. I imagine you only have entitlement. Everything that's worth having has to be worked for. Relationships, contentment, a lovely garden or home whether owned or rented.

I wonder what would happen if everyone did what you want to do? There'd be nobody paying any tax and the claimants whether disabled, unwell, in dire circumstances, etc, would end up with zippo.

I am very happy to pay taxes, even higher taxes for those who can't work. I would not be happy paying taxes for those who won't work. All those who can work are morally bound to support those who can't. If you don't want to do that I think you need to reflect very carefully. Resources for the most vulnerable are very limited. You are very, very selfish.

You know what, OP. If it’s such a wonderful life why don’t you give up your job, sell your house so you’re not paying your ‘enormous’ mortgage and go on benefits yourself. Do you know how many people dream of owning their own house? At some point you must’ve had enough saved to put a deposit down on said house putting you in a position better than many in this country.

As your posts go on you are sounding more and more bitter and vile. You must be a delight in real life. Fucking hell people living on benefits are the real winners in society aren’t they, no potential for their income to go up, no private pensions to be paid out in old age and people like you looking down your nose at them. What a dream!

You chose your mortgage amount, you chose to have a child knowing how long you could be on mat leave so take responsibility for the decisions you have made. You can’t be angry at other people because you’ve mortgaged up to your eye balls, maybe you should have made different choices.

Also if you’d be better off leaving your husband and working benefits then do that, see what a walk in the park life as a single mother is. I would suggest doing a benefits calculator so you can get really excited and see how rich you’ll be on universal credit 😂

I think the problem is that wages are so low in the UK and the cost of essentials so high that you have to go a long way up the food chain to find the kind of financial security that people expect from two adults both contributing to a household.

Its shit being on benefits, maintainance on social housing doesnt cost you but takes ages to get done and often not well, in private rent its worse, with added tenancy insecurity. But house prices are high, mortgages on modest homes eat up huge amounts of people's earnings, and the needed deposit is often out of reach without family help.

For those with young children, childcare is a massive expense, so the expensive years become unmanageable. When interest rates were low, people would subsidise them by remortgaging, loans or credit cards but with interest rates rising, they can no longer afford to do so.

Child benefit used to be available for all, and tax credits covered many more people than universal credit did, so those with young children are getting hammered on all fronts.

The big issue with thus country is not the tories- it's people expecting others to pay for their life choices and take no ownership of their health and well-being, finances , their families or their futures

No I am not talking about those who are unable to support themselves due to disabilities

Social welfare should be there as a cushion. The minimum wage in UK is a joke. Everyone should be able to live on what they earn , however you may not be able to live the way you want. The opportunity is there to better yourself but people seem to find plenty of excuses why you can't

Work doesn't pay well now... People have to go through a lot of hardship to get into social housing.

I'd be worried renting now, rents are crazy and a lot of landlords are having to sell, massive shortage of rental properties too. My old landlord rarely fixed anything so I don't think that's a given. I think the grass looks greener but it's not, my friend had to go part time and got UC when her DH left her and babies high and dry, she was devastated and needed the help for a while.

MPs are OK though, housing and utility bills as expenses! Rent out your home, possibly claim school costs? Job's a good un.

I think what the OP is getting at (and correct me if I misinterpreted @Cuppasoupmonster ) is that those that are receiving benefits have some advantage over her in her current climate.

So imagine a side by side checklist of Soup(OP) and our hypothetical Benefits recipient- Mary. Just an example… I’m not stating who has the advantage in real life!

Time with family -Mary
Discretionary $/£ -Soup
Effort / time of work. -Mary
Rent/Mortgage cost. -Both
Travel/Holidays- Neither

She may well be correct that right now she’s coming out behind, at the same time others may be correct that in the long run Soup comes out ahead.

On the flip side it could be that Soup is better off now but is screwed in the future or ends up in the same position as Mary if suddenly everyone who has a great idea about redistribution of wealth suddenly gets their way, the stock market crashes, pensions go belly up, etc.

On a philosophical level, a society has to carefully balance filling needs of the poorest, without inadvertently offering up incentive not to be a contributor … Soup’s question is the exact reason for that.

For all of those who are saying if you don’t like the system, give up work and go on benefits too, who is going to pay for all the benefits if we all do that?? It won’t be the rich as they can hide a lot of their assets and it won’t be the likes of Amazon

People say that, because the reality is that if people like the OP did just that, they would get a short sharp shock at how hard and miserable it is.
They assume life on benefits is easy or comfortable... fed lies by the likes of the red tops and Daily Mail.. or the numerous posts on here about "my 2nd aunt is on benefits and goes to the Maldives 3 times a year and has a Bentley" type shite.
If you quit your job, you can't even claim UC for at least 3 months anyway.

Always the same posters starting these 'woe is me' threads. Always someone else's fault for their lot - mostly benefit-claimants, many of whom will never know the security of owing their own home (and also have to constantly deal with attitudes like OP), but also anyone having the absolute brass neck to have lived over the age of 65 with more than 50p in their pension pot, and especially the very elderly, so-called 'bed blockers'.

Spending your time on MN attacking people on benefits or the elderly isn't going to make life easier for you or reduce the size of that ENORMOUS chip on your shoulder, but spending that time applying for a better paid job just might.

Oh.. and I think everyone needs to understand that enormous mortgage =/= enormous house. Interest rates can turn a modest or comfortable mortgage into an eye watering expense overnight.

I'm going to agree wholeheartedly with you OP.

The only reason we do this because we are in a capitalist society. We SHOULD be able to live on an average wage and live well. I think the push from previous generations from everything from careers to homeownership isn't as glossy and lovely as it once was.

I find home ownership a drag and the lack of money we have to save at the end of the month awful. DH and I bring home just shy of 4k between us each month and it amounts to very little in the end. We are downsizing and I cannot wait! I want adventures not bills 😕

But, being on benefits is rarely a better option.

Could you change other aspects of your lifestyle? House size? It can be a bit poo. Now my DCs are both at school, I feel a lot more in control of finances, although we are not well off.

But affordable housing is a lifetime tenancy....

I'd say you're always going to be better off for owning your own home. But right now, with your nursery fees it may feel like you're working for nothing. This is one of the reasons when mine were small (wanted two with a small age gap) I changed jobs and worked part time on an evening and weekends, so we didn't have to shell out for nursery, as DH was home to look after the kids. Yes it was tough as we were like passing ships in the night for a few years, but it also meant my wage was actually additional money we would have had to do without otherwise, or would barely pay the childcare fees. It was a sacrifice career wise, but afforded us nice holidays and meant we didn't have to struggle during those years, and I got to spend all day with the children. Now mine are both at school and I've got a better job that works around the school hours, and we are actually able to save money for the future again. Childcare costs suck, but they are short term, and there are other options other. It's not as black and white as work full time OR unemployed on benefits.

Come on, seriously, you think benefits and the stigma of bumming off others for your everyday needs is better... you have got to be joking... the benefits bashing is usually a middle class thing. Don't get sucked into the crap that living on benefits is all flat screens, great mobiles and living it up... people have to eat, heat and live you know.

Jog on with the better than working rubbish and join a food bank since it's just so good...!