Page 10 | To think work no longer ‘pays’

Cuppasoupmonster · 2023-01-13T19:38:00+00:00

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread. I often see on here that working and owning your own home is *always* better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest. It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

cansu · 13/01/2023 22:30

Having a mortgage and working like shit is much the same as renting and working like shit. The main difference is the mortgage eventually ending.

MissWings · 13/01/2023 22:31

@Dreamsoffreedomjoyandpeace

True and even if you wanted to contribute to society in traditional roles that enable that, it’s really bloody difficult to do so. Teaching for example, it should be a wonderfully rewarding job whereby you contribute massively to society. What is it now though? Box ticking and data collection for multi academy trusts who’s CEOs take away $$$ whilst the class teacher has to buy all the resources. They don’t care about education ….. nursing too, list is endless.

Those folk doing other well paid jobs are doing it to line their own pockets (fair enough, but let’s stop the lie you’re doing it for others). People work to get their own money to satisfy themselves and their families. You’re hardly there wishing to pay more tax.

Hellybelly84 · 13/01/2023 22:32

noname23a · 13/01/2023 21:45

The trick is to start out on benefits/council place, then get a career. I was at home with my DC till they started school. Didn’t have a lot of money but it was ok and I got to spend that time with them. Then part time work plus benefit top ups while they were at primary gave us a decent standard of living. Then I got a career.

I have a lifetime tenancy on a lovely big house I would never have afforded to buy myself, reasonable rent, so now I have plenty of disposable income. No major repairs to pay for so I’ve spent a lot on the interior of the house so it’s really nice. Go on holiday several times a year. In retirement either housing benefit will pay my rent or I could rent out a spare room for the same as my monthly rent cost (desirable area).

I don’t regret a thing. It doesn’t work out that way for everyone but you can make it work in your favour if you’re determined. I did a series of exchanges to get the house I wanted. I played the system in my favour but I did work for it too. That’s life as far as I’m concerned, you play the hand you’re dealt.

So, you’re not being wholly unreasonable. We are told there is one right way to do things but for many a mortgage is a noose around their neck. They kid themselves they have this “asset” but as you say, you can be forced to sell it to pay for your care. And at the cost of 1k plus per week for a care home that money runs out quickly.

I cannot believe what ive just read…

You’ve summed it up in the first few words…’the trick is’…in other words, scamming the decent hard working British public that help fund your benefits and council house. Have some pride 🙄

Benefits should not be there to be used to get the lifestyle you want. They should be there as a safety net for those who find themselves in difficult times (illness, lost a job etc). Your post is an embarrassment to yourself.

Mycatsgoldtooth · 13/01/2023 22:35

The family across the road just got moved to a bigger house. Now a new family have moved in. No one works, cheap rent. All the people I know in benefits do a bit of cash in hand. The system is broken. It was supposed to be a safety net but we have a massive shortage of workers and millions on benefits. And now the government are dating we need to bring people in to work. Ridiculous situation.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 13/01/2023 22:35

Regularsizedrudy · 13/01/2023 19:47

Don’t fucking do it then. 🙄

You know very well you are in a better position working, that’s why you are doing it. Get a grip. Sick of these threads.

This.

You're in your own home with a secure job, a position that many would envy. If it’s so easy to go and find secure rental housing whilst raking it in on benefits then go and fucking do it rather than making others feel shit because of the unfortunate position they may have found themselves in.

AthenaPopodopolous · 13/01/2023 22:36

You are absolutely right to feel like that. If you want to spend the early years at home with your child or work part time then you have to make some compromises. The choice is yours.

AlfaRomeoWhereArtThou · 13/01/2023 22:36

Hellybelly84 · 13/01/2023 22:22

I genuinely feel so proud of how hard we work as a family and wouldn’t ever want to consider any other way (although I think there should be a benefits safety net there for those who genuinely need it). My kids see 2 parents doing everything they possibly can to work hard for them. Children need to see that and to learn the only way to earn things is through hard work. You can feel massive pride at how hard you work and the values you are instilling in your daughter.

Why is working something to be proud of though? Society seems to have been brainwashed into thinking that work for the sake of work is somehow virtuous. The majority of jobs are rather pointless and those with most tasking and valuable jobs (e.g. nurses) earn far less than people who just sit behind a screen all day pushing around Excel spreadsheets. The idea of "hard work pays off" is therefore a false narrative. Don't buy into the hype.

IdidntshagHarry · 13/01/2023 22:40

The divide and rule is really working.

@Cuppasoupmonster give up your job and go live it up on benefits then... it's so easy ... go on then... do it. The like of you and your sort and the pathetic attack and moaning at people who are ill, disabled, carers, out of work, etc is the reason that this country will NOT improve. The stupid slating of people at the bottom/the most vulnerable whilst TURNING A BLIND EYE to the real problems with this country means WE WON'T IMPROVE THINGS FOR EVERYONE...

Don't be part of the problem.. stand up and be the solution and stop moaning. Direct your anger to the real problem the top 1% not the bottom...actually think about it a bit. Use your brain and think who is the real problem here.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 13/01/2023 22:41

IdidntshagHarry · 13/01/2023 22:40

The divide and rule is really working.

@Cuppasoupmonster give up your job and go live it up on benefits then... it's so easy ... go on then... do it. The like of you and your sort and the pathetic attack and moaning at people who are ill, disabled, carers, out of work, etc is the reason that this country will NOT improve. The stupid slating of people at the bottom/the most vulnerable whilst TURNING A BLIND EYE to the real problems with this country means WE WON'T IMPROVE THINGS FOR EVERYONE...

Don't be part of the problem.. stand up and be the solution and stop moaning. Direct your anger to the real problem the top 1% not the bottom...actually think about it a bit. Use your brain and think who is the real problem here.

Excellent post.

Original poster

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:42

IdidntshagHarry · 13/01/2023 22:40

The divide and rule is really working.

@Cuppasoupmonster give up your job and go live it up on benefits then... it's so easy ... go on then... do it. The like of you and your sort and the pathetic attack and moaning at people who are ill, disabled, carers, out of work, etc is the reason that this country will NOT improve. The stupid slating of people at the bottom/the most vulnerable whilst TURNING A BLIND EYE to the real problems with this country means WE WON'T IMPROVE THINGS FOR EVERYONE...

Don't be part of the problem.. stand up and be the solution and stop moaning. Direct your anger to the real problem the top 1% not the bottom...actually think about it a bit. Use your brain and think who is the real problem here.

The top 1% pay 30% of all income tax.

Why would I be angry with them?

OP posts:

MissWings · 13/01/2023 22:43

@AlfaRomeoWhereArtThou

I do agree. I see the value in work, but it’s not the be all and end all. I want to instill my children with real self esteem, not one that is just propped up entirely by a work identity. We all need to work (well the large majority of us) but I fear young people put too much emphasis now on that job title. Sometimes having two parents out at work full time is no fun for kids either, although I appreciate many people simply don’t have the luxury of working part time now. There are many reasons to be proud and working is only one piece of that jigsaw.

IdidntshagHarry · 13/01/2023 22:43

The JEALOUSY of the people on benefits. The Daily Mail have won. People actually believe it and buy into it that people on benefits, renting, living week to week are so much better off that the middle class home owning section.... well done Daily Mail... you have brainwashed the middle into jealously of the bottom earning/no asset section of society. Brilliant.

Original poster

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:44

As for ‘directing my anger’ what do you suggest? I vote Labour, what more can I do? Do you really think a few emails to my (Tory) MP will do anything? Your sort of posts make me laugh, they’re completely hollow and just a red herring.

OP posts:

Canthave2manycats · 13/01/2023 22:44

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 20:11

Do you really want to hand over your control of your future to millions of other people?

We have anyway! Posters on here seem to think working people have all this choice and freedom that benefit claimants or social housing tenants don’t have. But I can’t:

Choose where I live. All the areas I want to live in (not even ‘posh’ just average) are too expensive
Make these instant repairs to my house that everyone seems to think I can. They’re staggeringly expensive, take time to save up for and book in
Spend more than 2 days a week with my tiny daughter - its nursery, nursery and more nursery the rest of the time
Have any holidays or treats because we are just so skint

A poster on another thread who claims benefits and doesn’t work was trying to convince me her life was hard due to cost of living because she ‘is having to cut down on holidays’. I haven’t had one in 5 years and that was in the U.K. 😆

Listen, I get you - I'm out the other end but it was bloody hard! We had three children in childcare and it cost more than double our mortgage. We paid childcare in varying amounts for 18 years! I used to say I might as well hand my salary over to the childcare provider and the supermarket, because there was sod all left over for me. My parents helped us a bit financially. I could seldom afford to treat myself, but my mum did now and again.

Not only nursery, but my kids were involved in all sorts of activities - swimming, piano lessons, guitar, clarinet, cello, ballet, Scouts/Guides - the cost was eyewatering, but DH and I were willing to go without ourselves to fund it. Our youngest was 5 before we could afford a holiday, and it was via Tesco Clubcard points and not abroad! It wouldn't have been a 'holiday' with 3 small children anyway.

It's hard not to feel resentful when you see peers with free family childcare. We were too far away from my parents (and wouldn't have put that on them anyway), and I wouldn't have trusted ILs for a minute!

My kids are all adults now, 2 graduates, one well-established in her career (which all those activities I endured lol, contributed to), and one undergrad. They're fantastic kids and I am very proud of them. My career parked but what the hell - I have a decent salary and work paid for my masters which I started when my youngest was 10 months old.

I'm heading for 60 now, and am so glad I hung on in there, even when things were hardest. Most of our mortgage is paid off, and we could decide to sell and live on the profits if we chose. I reckon for years I pretty much worked for my pension, but I will reap the benefits of that in the next few years. I don't have to worry about a landlord turfing me out, and hopefully I won't ever need to go into care (neither my parents or ILs did) I will have a tangible asset to leave to my children to give them a leg up.

On the other hand, I have a friend who didn't work for 20 years while rearing her children (high earning DH) - she went back to work a few years ago, but is working in relatively low paid jobs (and fair play to her for upskilling and putting herself out there) and has sod all pension in her own right.

Which brings me to another consideration - keeping your job means keeping some independence. If for some reason you and your DH split up, at least you would stand a better chance of being able to support yourself.

IAmTheWalrus85 · 13/01/2023 22:44

Well, it all depends on your income, your outgoings and your work prospects. But I do get you OP. I think having to work FT when you have very young children and handing over a massive proportion of your income to nursery can be really soul destroying and make you question everything. When I did it I found it made me feel bitter about the whole system - handing £1700 over to nursery every month. The fees for babies are so high in part because nurseries need to recoup the losses from providing the 15/30 free hours for 3+yos. So when the SAHMs would swing up to the gate in their 4x4s dropping off little Freddy for his ‘15 free hours’ I would seethe - how is it fair that I’m working 50 hour weeks to pay for someone who doesn’t work to get free childcare to go and get their nails done?! (Plus free healthcare and education!) How is it fair that I’m funding other people to work 16 hours a week and spend time with their children?

All I can say is that a) I made some changes and now work 4 days rather than 5 which made SO much difference to my happiness and b) with a bit of perspective I’m definitely glad I carried on, especially with rising costs.

If you move to a smaller place can you make any changes to your work pattern?

Original poster

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:45

keeping your job means keeping some independence. If for some reason you and your DH split up, at least you would stand a better chance of being able to support yourself.

If DH and I split and I went part time I would be better off with UC than I am now!

OP posts:

Hellybelly84 · 13/01/2023 22:46

AlfaRomeoWhereArtThou · 13/01/2023 22:36

Why is working something to be proud of though? Society seems to have been brainwashed into thinking that work for the sake of work is somehow virtuous. The majority of jobs are rather pointless and those with most tasking and valuable jobs (e.g. nurses) earn far less than people who just sit behind a screen all day pushing around Excel spreadsheets. The idea of "hard work pays off" is therefore a false narrative. Don't buy into the hype.

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Because we can come home at the end of the day and be proud we didnt sponge off the system when we are physically fit and able to work, proud that we enjoy our jobs and proud that our kids love learning and want good jobs in the future too.

We’re also happy to pay tax to help those who are genuinely not able to work through illness, disability etc. I feel incredibly lucky not to have the option to work taken away from me. Everyone I know who has had a serious illness (or just a short term illness) has been desperate to get back to work for the mental health benefits of working. If no one worked, that safety net (for those who really need it) wouldn’t exist.

Your reason sounds like a lazy person who cant be bothered to do a hard days work.

IAmTheWalrus85 · 13/01/2023 22:46

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:45

keeping your job means keeping some independence. If for some reason you and your DH split up, at least you would stand a better chance of being able to support yourself.

If DH and I split and I went part time I would be better off with UC than I am now!

Where would you be living in that event?

Eyerollcentral · 13/01/2023 22:48

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:45

keeping your job means keeping some independence. If for some reason you and your DH split up, at least you would stand a better chance of being able to support yourself.

If DH and I split and I went part time I would be better off with UC than I am now!

Leaving aside your ridiculous comments about being better off on benefits, is your marriage that disposable to you that you’d walk out and share custody to get one over those dastardly benefit claimants??? Honestly seek help.

Original poster

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:48

Eyerollcentral · 13/01/2023 22:48

Leaving aside your ridiculous comments about being better off on benefits, is your marriage that disposable to you that you’d walk out and share custody to get one over those dastardly benefit claimants??? Honestly seek help.

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Yes that’s exactly what I was saying 🙄 talk about missing the point!

OP posts:

IdidntshagHarry · 13/01/2023 22:48

@Cuppasoupmonster they really have done a great job on you. Continue to direct your ANGER, RAGE AND JEALOUSY AT PEOPLE ON BENEFITS.... you really don't see it do you! The problems in society are because of the people on benefits ... you poor person working your socks off ... directing your anger at the wrong section of society.... wake up and smell the coffee and stop enabling the benefit bashing...

I feel for you.

Try a morning volunteering (as I have done many times) at a soup kitchen, a food bank, homeless shelter and ACTUALLY OPEN YOUR EYES to the inequalities in society. One day you may fall. It's not great relying on others... the shame, the stigma, but hey ho ... what do I know...

Original poster

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:49

IdidntshagHarry · 13/01/2023 22:48

@Cuppasoupmonster they really have done a great job on you. Continue to direct your ANGER, RAGE AND JEALOUSY AT PEOPLE ON BENEFITS.... you really don't see it do you! The problems in society are because of the people on benefits ... you poor person working your socks off ... directing your anger at the wrong section of society.... wake up and smell the coffee and stop enabling the benefit bashing...

I feel for you.

Try a morning volunteering (as I have done many times) at a soup kitchen, a food bank, homeless shelter and ACTUALLY OPEN YOUR EYES to the inequalities in society. One day you may fall. It's not great relying on others... the shame, the stigma, but hey ho ... what do I know...

Yes what do you know?! What on Earth are you talking about 😂

OP posts:

Eyerollcentral · 13/01/2023 22:50

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 22:48

Yes that’s exactly what I was saying 🙄 talk about missing the point!

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What is your point??? You are speculating about a future where your marriage has ended, your family is split. What are either of those worth to you if think that hypothesising about their end is winning argument?

Rosebel · 13/01/2023 22:50

WinterFoxes · 13/01/2023 20:36

Seriously?

Go and walk around a housing area which is predominantly occupied by people on benefits. Is it truly no different from the area surrounding the home you own? Would you be just as happy for your child to grow up there? Would you be happy living there for the next fifty years, knowing that any desire to move would be likely a pipe dream as it would be dependent on either a flat swap with another person on benefits or finding a landlord elsewhere.

Do you want to be hounding someone else for months on end to deal with your damp problems, broken heating, leaking washing machine etc etc, pestering and pleading with someone who doesn't give a damn if your child is inhaling black mould or is shivering cold, or would you like to sort it out for yourself?

Would you like to know, without doubt that you are poor and will remain poor for the next fifty years - struggling to pay for food, clothes, utilities, school trips, birthday treats and Christmas or would you prefer the opportunity to develop your skills and increase your earning power?

Would you like to wake up every day with no reason to get dressed? No reason to leave the house and interact with the rest of the world? Would you like your child to see you this way and think this is what life is?

If you are unhappy in your job and home, change them, but not for a life on benefits. You'd soon tire of the relative freedom.

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It's not that bad living in social housing. This is almost more insulting than the OP. Lots of people in social housing work and get up for that or to get children to school. Even most people on benefits work part-time.
I'm not saying people are better off not working but we're not all strange creatures just because we live in social housing!

AlfaRomeoWhereArtThou · 13/01/2023 22:53

Hellybelly84 · 13/01/2023 22:46

Because we can come home at the end of the day and be proud we didnt sponge off the system when we are physically fit and able to work, proud that we enjoy our jobs and proud that our kids love learning and want good jobs in the future too.

We’re also happy to pay tax to help those who are genuinely not able to work through illness, disability etc. I feel incredibly lucky not to have the option to work taken away from me. Everyone I know who has had a serious illness (or just a short term illness) has been desperate to get back to work for the mental health benefits of working. If no one worked, that safety net (for those who really need it) wouldn’t exist.

Your reason sounds like a lazy person who cant be bothered to do a hard days work.

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Just saying there is no link between how hard people work and the pay they receive. I agree there are other benefits to work. I work fulltime because it does make me feel better mentally. However, I am under no illusion that it is something to be "proud" of.