To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

Yep and some of us get up even earlier (4.30am in my case), in order to be at work by 6am ready to start a 10 hour shift.

Why don't you do what we in social housing are always told to do on here if we can't afford to pay our bills/rent.....get a better job/move somewhere cheaper/downsize?

As an aside, most people dont end up in a carehome.

Used to to rent a property where the young lad next door did nothing all day but smoke weed, sniff solvents and play eminem on repeat. Also used to regularly beat his girlfriend and dog.

Apparently this young lad who screamed and ran around the flat all day wasn't fit enough to work.

Now i'm saying this because people are claiming that this isn't reality.

Having a job that could lead to promotion and a house with a mortgage generally speaking will give you far greater choices and for a significant chunk of your life (from around 45/50 until 65/70) a better lifestyle. You will have choices unlike those who rely on the state (bedroom tax and benefit freezes will not concern you). You can leverage your asset to invest in things (a loan for a car or further training will be easier to get) you could (if needed) use your asset to protect you from misfortune by downsizing) moving to a cheaper area.... Yes in in the 5-8 years you are in need of care (physical decline happens to us all) you will be cared for in the same way that your friends who didn't work will be (you might get more choice in that phase) but it's a relatively short section of your life. For me the big bonus is that I could use my house to pay for dignitas at a time of my choosing (hopefully if dementia didn't get me before I can legally decide).

How old is your daughter, OP?

The problem is the astronomical cost of childcare. You surely realise that when she is 3+ you will have a lot more money than anyone on benefits? So it's only 2 years of slaving away. And when she's at school you could work 4 days instead of 3 and if you earn 26k on 3 days a week, sounds like you've got a good wage.

You could move to a cheaper house also. We live in an ugly very cheap area, terraced house, communal parking etc and end up with 2k+ to spare each month (I'm on 29k 4 days a week so not great salary, DH earns well though). Holidays are more important to us than a nice house so that's where we've compromised.

Also consider when your DD is 4 the £800-1000 you must spend on nursery right now will become disposable income.

Maybe you should have chosen a slightly cheaper area then. To not qualify for the 30 hours you must be on £100k plus.

It depends how old you are. I’m 59 and we cleared our mortgage around 6 years ago. Hopefully won’t be in a care home for a good few years!

@Hellybelly84 I thought that posters post was interesting and honest. I would be very interested to know how many years ago it was though when she stayed at home with her kids? Because the costs since the early 90s and not comparable in the slightest.

Someone made a comment about jobs today its tougher by far today. There seems to be a lot of working mums today but is it for the best though? I say this as a working mum myself genuinely I wonder myself... personally I think equality has gone too far.

As long as your not breaking the law I agree shuffle the hand your dealt with. Perhaps OP could look at working part time? If she's struggling due to huge interest rates I don't think there's any shame with doing what's best for you and your family.

Perhaps nowadays we all want to be martyrs? I think we do have to accept that renting social housing does absolutely work fine and having a mortgage works fine sometimes. Like anything it's all relative.

This, most people can't afford to pay £800+ on childcare alone, plus a mortgage and bills it's just not doable for the majority.

Suggested by PP who said the rich ‘earn too much’. Surely that’s the logical extension?

I don’t have my health sadly.

Equality hasn’t gone too far fgs. Men still earn more than women by a sizeable amount in almost every occupation. Unbelievable statement.

We're still a long way from equality. More is expected of women these days but it's not equality.

There's nothing like learning thorugh experience. Sell your house, get sacked from your job, claim benefits and get on the housing list.

If you don't want to do that, then the reasons you don't want to do it are the benefits you are getting through working.

What a ridiculous post.
Renting is forever so you want to pay to a landlord for 50 years including when retired?
Hopefully if you work your organisation pays into your pension as you do.
There are so many reasons to work I would need to write an essay.
You only have small children for a short time and things get easier when they go to school,

I can't get a bigger flat (we are in a one bed with a toddler) because nursery fees crush affordability and we should have sold up when I was pregnant although it was lockdown.

The other day I wrote to nursery to get an estimate of what it would be this time next year when his hours kick in. (Then I did the tax free calculation on top).

I recommend you do that! Seeing the number really gave us a boast that there was a light at the end of the tunnel on the worst of the fees, and by this time next year we can get out of this flat.

Renting is forever so you want to pay to a landlord for 50 years including when retired?

But they don’t pay the majority of it do they? The state does.

In a way you are correct work doesn't 'pay' in the same way it did 50 years ago (or even 30). Real disposable incomes have declined massively since 2008 . www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bath.ac.uk/publications/what-are-the-prospects-for-a-wage-recovery-in-the-uk/attachments/wage-recovery.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjr4MvK1sb8AhWYdcAKHcx6DCc4ChAWegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw2OqnuH0AURApDgtDrJJh9n
In the middle earnings centile have less spending power, even 'good' professional jobs no longer get the higher lifestyle perks (it's not a given that Drs can afford to send their kids to private school, whereas in the 80's it was). Various decisions by governments have allowed house prices to soar whilst most have not received compatible wage rises...

Then there's one of the benefits! Being able to stay with your DH!

I've been on benefits due to having to give up work to 24/7 care for my disabled son when he was born. It was horrendous. For 5 years I struggled like hell and couldn't put a meal on the table most evenings. I went back to work and had to start from the bottom. I've worked my way right up and earn comfortably now that my life is unrecognisable to the life I had on benefits.

@Eyerollcentral why is it an unbelievable statement? It's not just about money it's about happiness too. Im sorry but my mum was at home with me with and my DB as kids, she worked part time and then full time. Things hit the fan when she worked full time and took a huge mortgage on.... she no longer has the house.

I'm sorry but everything shouldn't be equal, women are not men and I think equality has a lot of drawbacks to the extent that its women who shudder the bill of nursery fees, I often read on here how am I going to afford it. At least years ago... men knew there roles.

Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting women should be forced to cook, clean and look after kids. However I am saying that women seem to be stepping up and the men have stepped right back too.

And where does the state get that money from? Tax from people who work,
Let's not be dim.

@hettie your post highlights the issue. Wage stagnation & ever rising housing costs. How is that an incentive for young people in particular to work? Oh & higher taxes & shiftier services too. it's a mess

Wrong. Some tenants may be eligible for housing benefit. Many more pay their rent in full.

Ok here's why.

DH and I both worked until our disabled son's care needs meant he needed a ft carer.

We owned a house with a huge amount of equity in it but living on one wage was impossible.

We fell into debt and lost our house.

Wait for social house is roughly 10+ years where I live and so we were forced to find a private rental and are paying £1,500 per month using our equity.

DH has been so stressed that he has had a nervous breakdown and can't work and I am not able to regain the fairly high paid career I had to leave four years ago.

We are moving 200 miles to spend what's left of the equity on a cheap house and I will work as a low paid teaching assistant.

Does that sound appealing op?

You have your answer.

There are lots of interesting points on the thread. On the equality point I earned more than my children's father (ultimately it was 10x more) which is becoming increasingly so for women as more go to university than men and plenty continue to work full time when they have a baby. In some couples it makes sense for the lower earner who might never be able to earn much even without children to stay at home t look after 3 children under 5 as that is going to be a very expensive thing for which to find full time childcare - daily nanny, child minder, 3 full time 8 - 6pm nursery places etc. However if either of the couple wants to preserve a career or get promotions it can be worth splitting childcare between the two and even if that is as if usual a massive percentage of income , carry on work as an investment in the future. We did that. Year 1 of a baby we had 2 full time jobs and paid 50% of our salary after tax for our childcare bill.

On housing if you go back to 1900 about 90% of people rented from private landlords including I think just about all my ancestors and they did not have unhappy lives. Some of them looking at the census records and birth certs were moving every year or 2 and some were in the same rented house for 10 years. I don't know if the ones moving a lot were skipping out with rent unpaid or if they just had to move due to the landlord.

As people have said on the thread, however, buying somewhere, despite the costs and massive stamp duty and then the state taking 40% when you die in IHT etc tends still to be worth doing even if just psychologically for the stability, power and control over your life.