To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

I’m sorry about your dad. It’s so difficult to see a parent decline and so difficult to know the right decision to make. But what you seem to be saying is I am annoyed I have no money coming to me. By the sound of it neither will your dad’s friend’s kids, despite you saying that he was working under the table all his life. I don’t get this mentality. Their father is declining too of course.
You won’t get pension credits if you have any kind of occupational pension. You would be unlikely to get any kind of housing benefit either. This includes if you have the remainder of your spouse’s pension.
There are benefit piss takers, of course. However just because you think you may know one doesn’t mean every single benefit recipient is a piss taker. It actually really saddens me when I have seen the squalid conditions many WORKING benefit recipients are working in, trying to do their best. Not to mention those other much more tragic cases where people are not fit to work for what ever reason and have to watch every single penny, all the time. Seriously, volunteer or visit at an organisation dealing with those literally on the bread line.

@Eyerollcentral why do you think everyone else thinks the hallmark of happiness and a well-lived life is having an inheritance to pass on? PP was clearly making a point about the fact her dad ran himself ragged and didn’t spend as much time with her as his lazy neighbour who pleased himself but got exactly the same outcome. Thats what this is about - the fact we all end up with basically the same thing whether we work hard or sit about doing fuck all 🤷🏼‍♀️

But that's the thing. I know I could die suddenly (my Mum did when I was very young) and working makes me more secure.

I can afford to pay for insurance that will clear the mortgage if I die suddenly.

My work have a death in service benefit that will pay out 3 times my annual salary

We have income replacement that will give my DH a monthly income (of more than my salary) until our youngest is 21

And my DH will inherit my pensions.

I'd have none of that security for my children if I didn't work.

My DH is similarly insured.

But the overwhelming likelihood is that you won’t die before retirement, so why slave away for years for an unlikelihood?

The top 1% pay 30% of all income tax? I haven't fact checked that but let's assume it's true. Why is that a bad thing? Maybe the real bad thing is the unfair distribution of wealth. The top 1% pay all that tax because they earn a shitload of money. Yet they don't earn that money entirely on their own merits, no matter how much they'd like to believe that. Business is a team game. Every job has a purpose and all contribute value. It's fair that some jobs should pay more than others based on skills and competence. However, does it really make sense that the CEO of a given corporation earns 100 or 1000 times what his mid-level employees earn? Does it really make sense that an investment banker earns exponentially more than a teacher or nurse?

So the problem perhaps is not that the top earners pay so much tax. The problem might just be that they earn far too much to begin with and we need a fairer way to distribute the proceeds of our joint endeavours.

So the problem perhaps is not that the top earners pay so much tax. The problem might just be that they earn far too much to begin with and we need a fairer way to distribute the proceeds of our joint endeavours.

Like what?

👏

So… a cap on how much people can earn?

You’ve got me completely wrong, I absolutely do not think that. The poster said her father wanted to leave an inheritance to his family.
In all fairness the previous poster didn’t say her neighbour was doing f all, she says the opposite. She says he was working under the table and alleges he was committing benefit fraud.

Perhaps the key thing here is you hate your job.

I don't slave away. I work very hard in a role I'm passionate about making a positive difference for others.

I'm very, very lucky to have a role I love and make such a difference.

I also compress hours, picked a DH who shares the load completely (mental load, spousework load and childcare load).

We also struggled during the 15 years we paid for childcare (over £70,000 in total).

We made difficult choices. Had no family help. Saved coupons from papers to go on caravan holidays

But we're seeing the benefits now.

Working was worth it for us.

My family needed the welfare system when I was young. I know which I prefer.

Children go to school, by secondary they don't need any childcare. Eventually your house is paid off and the kids leave home. Our house is paid off, makes things a lot cheaper (I'm older than you op) in my old age I don't have to pay rent and from my salary I've paid for a private pension on top of my state pension so we can retire early

It's a different topic, but earnings are not wages. Higher earners are compensated for the risks they take, and the results they deliver. It is a mistake to convert that into an hourly wage.

Some of the highest earners work for nothing for years and then have a payday where they realise millions from a single deal. You just can't average it out and treat it like wages.

The key distinction is wages are certain. You have a contractual right to be paid those wages - regardless of whether your employer makes a profit, remains solvent, or you add any value.

Whereas huge chunks of executive pay are uncertain. Much is made in the media of the ones who get big cheques each year ... but nothing is ever said about the many more who got nothing.

Where I agree absolutely with the OP is that lower earners on or near the minimum wage are not paid anywhere near enough. We should all be applauding Mick Lynch and the others striking for better pay - their success will force up wages for everyone.

But things won’t work out that way for our generation.

There is nowhere near enough social housing, to compare the kind of benefits and lifestyle that you could achieve on them to someone currently at care home age to what people in their 20s and 30s can experience is completely different.

Jesus Christ, what are you on about now? I’m so confused by your ramblings on this thread, what do you think is to be gained by a wage cap?

This. I work 50+ hrs a week currently. Will never own my own home.
With respect, OP, you need to have a think about what you've said. It's not controversial- it's rubbish.

No. That might be the end result but I would say we need to focus on far better distribution of wealth in favour of those on the lower rungs of the ladder. That would almost certainly mean those at the top have to settle for a bit less but that is not the same as trying to enforce a cap on maximum earnings.

Consider this. The national minimum wage is currently £9.50 an hour for an adult and about to go up to £10.40. Call it a tenner. That means somebody working a standard 40 hour week might earn the princely sum of £20k per year. Not exactly great, and it gets worse. For starters, the term minimum wage is bit of a red herring. In practice it is not the minimum wage, it has become the default wage for the majority of unskilled and semi-skilled workers. Whilst the introduction of the minimum wage was meant to help lower earners, what it actually did was drastically reduce wage competition. To add insult to injury, a lot of people on minimum wage don't even get full time hours. It suits corporations to offer part-time only, because it increases flexibility and reduces employment costs. Tough shit for the worker who has to figure out how to get by on £12k a year.

Of course some people should earn more than others but that doesn't mean that it has to be no holds barred. A C-level exec of a major corporation generally earns in the millions. Bankers and fund managers earn in the 100s of 1000s or even the millions. What makes them worth so much more than a supermarket worker, a nurse, a teacher, a refuse collector or a bus driver? The only thing that makes you think they are worth so much more is because you've been brainwashed and unless you are one of them you might as well be a turkey voting for Christmas. If a fund manager doesn't do his job I maybe lose a few thousand pounds on my SIPP over a period of time. If supermarket workers don't do their job I don't eat, if nurses don't do their job I die in pain, if bus drivers don't do their job I can't get to work, if refuse collectors don't do their job I have to live in filth and squalor, if teachers don't do their job I end up with kids that are thicker than pig shit.

Such a great post, totally correct in everything you say. However it will fall on deaf ears for the OP and many others on this thread because they aren’t looking for reasoned answers to the problems in society, they are looking to vent their spleens that life is costing them more and they take it out on those they think are least able to defend themselves. With the NHS in crisis on top of everything else you really have to wonder at the majesty of that post war labour government in establishing state welfare provision and health care, there’s no doubt that the same people who carp here now would have carped there then. It’s nothing short of a miracle any of the social welfare systems were ever established in Britain and it is shocking to see how many mouthpieces want to demolish those towering achievements for the benefit of their own sense of superiority.

OP are you angry at the choices that you have made in your life so far?
You chose to take on a mortgage - possibly a bigger mortgage than was practical given that interest rates were, until recently on the floor. We were all aware from the media that this was unsustainable and interest rates would rise at some point again. Were you in rented accommodation before?
You have a child - again most likely a conscious decision was made to start a family with your DH - there are very few parents who don't question their decisions when they are knackered and up for the third night running with a restless or poorly child. Or that said child needs yet another pair of new shoes less than a month after buying the latest pair.
As for early starts - that goes with being employed I'm afraid - it could be worse - you could be at home looking after your DD as you wanted - and dreading the fact that you have had no sleep and you are going to work at night when DH gets home to take over childcare!
Holidays - some people never get to go on holiday - so 5 years since your last one suggests that this was a casualty when you took on a mortgage. Suck it up!! Life is blooming hard at times - but you are fed up with the sacrifices that you have had to make - bit snowflakey to me!!
It will get better - it might not look like it now - but if you make these random decisions because you would rather be home with your daughter and live off benefits- it probably won't be one of your better decisions.
Do look at how you can make things better -be pro-active about your decisions and own them! We are all having to make cut backs in shopping, gas, electric, looking after GCs or DCs to mention just a few - you are not alone!!

I understand where you are coming from. But private rented really is shit. You have security of not having to move as long as you keep up the mortgage. People in private rented places can get evicted because the landlord wants the house back.
Life is tough though.

Juggling stuff when the children are young is crazily hard and very exhausting.

My children are older now (teenagers) and finally things are easier. My career has finally taken off and I'm earning decent money, the mortgage is paid and it doesn't feel like such a mad rush anymore.

Also, I'm intellectually challenged through work which I think is important. I'm not planning on going into a care home - I'll stay active and busy in my beautiful home until I'm 98 then I'll hopefully go to bed one night and won't wake up. Not everyone goes into a care home 🤞

I think I would be a different person if I were stuck at home every day on benefits.

Hang on in there - youre just having a rough time at the moment.

You have
A home
A job
A child
A partner
Your health
Your youth

Perhaps you need to reflect on what you have already !

Yes, we all grow old, decline, and die. The fact we are all headed for the same end doesn’t mean that a life working or disabled and in need of benefits is easier than life when you have a decent income and can own your home.

The truth is it’s not, we may all get to the same end, but those who are able to work, own a home and benefit from the lower hardship and stress of a better life get many more years of good health and live longer than those who need benefits to survive.

Completely agree.

This.

Presumably if you can afford the repairs. We need double glazing put it in as our windows are single glazing and one is plastic (!!!). Some of us don't have that money. Some of us with a mortgage are actually qualifying for benefit top ups.