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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Pudding or Dessert?

276 replies

TheShellBeach · 10/01/2023 18:27

.........or even "Sweet" or "Afters"? What do you call it?
And what do you have, if anything?

OP posts:
Jadviga · 10/01/2023 22:54

Disclaimer : I'm not British. English is my second language.

Dessert for me. Pudding I thought was a specific kind of dessert.

But then I'm always confused when people say "tea" instead of "dinner".
First time I heard someone say something about "eating tea" I was really confused !

LulooLemon · 10/01/2023 22:57

Pudding every time

MrsHughesPinny · 10/01/2023 22:57

Dessert. Pudding is a certain type of dessert to me. Usually steamed and served with lots of lovely custard… I’m hungry now!

poetryandwine · 10/01/2023 22:58

Thank you, @Jadviga

TheLeadbetterLife · 10/01/2023 23:03

Diverging · 10/01/2023 22:23

Dessert defo sounds posher IMO

The working class used the same language as the upper class because they used basic no frills language. The U class use the same as they have nothing to prove and don’t need to show off or aspire to appear rich or posh as they just are quietly very rich. (Or wealthy as the non-u might say 😆).

Words like dessert, toilet, lounge, serviette we’re invented by the aspiring middle class who were trying to sound posh. Or what they thought was posh.

Old money upper class didn’t need a list of approved words, they just were the words they grew up with. That’s a bit different to someone trying to sound u by adopting a list.

And yet it's very noticeable on this thread that people who are just using the words they grew up with aren't sure which ones are posh or not, nor do they care.

Whereas the U are going out of their way not only to point out that dessert / sweet / afters is common, but also to inform the plebs of all the other words they look down upon. Which means they do have a list and it is affected. Betjeman even wrote the list into a snooty poem.

I think some in the middle classes are hung up on U words because they think it makes them sound like Old Money. Ironically, the U words have replaced the non-U as aspirational and try-hard, which is surely terribly non-U.

CrunchyCarrot · 10/01/2023 23:05

Dessert. But I grew up in Australia so maybe it's different there.

ZiriForEver · 10/01/2023 23:12

English isn't my first language.
Meal terminology differs so much between MN and all my "standard British English" textbooks...

Dessert. Only dessert.
In my language pudding is a specific kind of dessert (vanilla/chocolate cream which is cooked at home from milk and powder and we typically eat it hot).

What is even worse is naming of the evening meal.
All my learning English life, dinner or supper was the evening one, lunch was the midday one and "tea" was only used for the hot drink. Actually, all my books use it like that. And now MN has it totally mixed up.

What's even more confusing, I have two UK colleagues (younger men) and when I asked them they both totally denied that "tea" would be used for meal, like "never heard it".
Could anyone explain the mystery, please?

TheShellBeach · 10/01/2023 23:27

ZiriForEver · 10/01/2023 23:12

English isn't my first language.
Meal terminology differs so much between MN and all my "standard British English" textbooks...

Dessert. Only dessert.
In my language pudding is a specific kind of dessert (vanilla/chocolate cream which is cooked at home from milk and powder and we typically eat it hot).

What is even worse is naming of the evening meal.
All my learning English life, dinner or supper was the evening one, lunch was the midday one and "tea" was only used for the hot drink. Actually, all my books use it like that. And now MN has it totally mixed up.

What's even more confusing, I have two UK colleagues (younger men) and when I asked them they both totally denied that "tea" would be used for meal, like "never heard it".
Could anyone explain the mystery, please?

"Tea" is used in parts of the UK to mean the evening meal.

OP posts:
ZiriForEver · 10/01/2023 23:40

TheShellBeach · 10/01/2023 23:27

"Tea" is used in parts of the UK to mean the evening meal.

Yeah, so much is clear. Is it some specific area?

I've never met it used like that outside of MN, for example in books written by UK authors or used by my UK colleagues. And two Britons told me they don't know it either. In the same time it seems to have majority on MN.

Davros · 10/01/2023 23:41

We said tea for evening meal when we were kids but our tea would have been about 6pm. In London

TheLeadbetterLife · 10/01/2023 23:48

ZiriForEver · 10/01/2023 23:40

Yeah, so much is clear. Is it some specific area?

I've never met it used like that outside of MN, for example in books written by UK authors or used by my UK colleagues. And two Britons told me they don't know it either. In the same time it seems to have majority on MN.

Some of my family are from the North West of England. Dinner is the midday meal and tea is the evening meal there.

That said, even there dinner can also be understood as an evening meal, so you're fine just using that.

Rosesandstars · 10/01/2023 23:51

Pudding (middle class family background)

MistyLuna · 10/01/2023 23:51

Legend has it that the original English word was pudding (presumably because that was the most common technique used back in the day for making the sweet course)

The about 200-ish years ago, London’s fashionable crowd, the social climbers, and those aspiring to sound more sophisticated, began to use the French term “dessert” (instead of the local “pudding”). Apparently, they believed this demonstrated to others how well-travelled and well-educated they were, and hence, how wealthy they were. Before you know it, most middle-classes and were calling “pudding” “dessert”. The working classes and factory workers continued to call it “pudding”.

However, this backfired big time. Across Europe royal heads were rolling, so in a bid to appear more in touch with the struggles of the common people, the upper classes in England started toning down how they dress and speak, and adopting more English sounding words in a show of both national unity and in a bid to blend in.

By the late 1800’s, all U’s were saying “pudding”, like the working classes. Some middle classes were still saying “dessert”, but not for very long, as they often tend to follow the U’s. So then the middle classes started saying pudding too! Confused? I don’t blame you.

Today, the term “dessert” sounds pretentious because of its origins and because it is assumed that people use it to sound sophisticated.

iminvestednow · 10/01/2023 23:55

I’m my house never toilet, always lavatory or loo.
Pudding is correct, ‘afters’ sounds horrid but each to their own. ‘Tea’ is the meal given to children before they are old enough to eat with adults in the evening. It’s none of my business how anyone else refers to these things (or even if they eat with a knife like a ‘pen friend’ ). In the uk though, people will silently judge.

ZiriForEver · 11/01/2023 00:03

TheLeadbetterLife · 10/01/2023 23:48

Some of my family are from the North West of England. Dinner is the midday meal and tea is the evening meal there.

That said, even there dinner can also be understood as an evening meal, so you're fine just using that.

One more dig into this one, please.

Is "tea" evening meal for everyone in your area, or the one for small children?
I see another poster here mentioning it like that, and one of my colleagues I asked earlier told me "no, I don't know it, maybe something used with small children?".

If it was mostly used around children/in family context, it would explain why my colleagues, news and books don't use it.

RobertaFirmino · 11/01/2023 00:06

The 'toilet' originally meant your main wash, that's where 'eau de toilette' came from. A 'lavatory' was a wash basin (presumably from the French 'laver') and a flushing loo was a 'water closet'. I learnt all this when I worked at Ideal Standard.

To simplify the matter, the gentrified classes, and indeed our very own King, eliminate their bodily waste in the 'shithouse'.

JauntyRedShoes · 11/01/2023 00:09

Always used Pudding. Reminds me of childhood, we had pudding every night, always homemade until Viennettas made an appearance in the shops. How avant- guarde - it was presented to the diners on a serving plate with berries and sliced with a silver cake slice. My mother was so impressed with this delight in a box. I preferred bread and butter pudding or lemon surprise pudding (it was never a surprise). Not had a viennetta for about 25 years.

TheLeadbetterLife · 11/01/2023 00:11

ZiriForEver · 11/01/2023 00:03

One more dig into this one, please.

Is "tea" evening meal for everyone in your area, or the one for small children?
I see another poster here mentioning it like that, and one of my colleagues I asked earlier told me "no, I don't know it, maybe something used with small children?".

If it was mostly used around children/in family context, it would explain why my colleagues, news and books don't use it.

Tea is the evening meal for everyone.

JFDIYOLO · 11/01/2023 00:12

'dessert' specifically means the fruit course

Pudding or pud usually. We might have trifle, apple pie, crumble & custard, ice-cream, cream cakes, choc mousse, fruit ...

Sweet or afters - no.

MistyLuna · 11/01/2023 00:14

JauntyRedShoes · 11/01/2023 00:09

Always used Pudding. Reminds me of childhood, we had pudding every night, always homemade until Viennettas made an appearance in the shops. How avant- guarde - it was presented to the diners on a serving plate with berries and sliced with a silver cake slice. My mother was so impressed with this delight in a box. I preferred bread and butter pudding or lemon surprise pudding (it was never a surprise). Not had a viennetta for about 25 years.

LOL
Brings back memories! Remember the television advert for Viannetta?

Glitterybee · 11/01/2023 00:19

Dessert

and it happens every night after dinner! It can range from cake, icecream, biscuits, chocolate or yogurt…. Basically anything sweet!

TheLeadbetterLife · 11/01/2023 00:21

MistyLuna · 10/01/2023 23:51

Legend has it that the original English word was pudding (presumably because that was the most common technique used back in the day for making the sweet course)

The about 200-ish years ago, London’s fashionable crowd, the social climbers, and those aspiring to sound more sophisticated, began to use the French term “dessert” (instead of the local “pudding”). Apparently, they believed this demonstrated to others how well-travelled and well-educated they were, and hence, how wealthy they were. Before you know it, most middle-classes and were calling “pudding” “dessert”. The working classes and factory workers continued to call it “pudding”.

However, this backfired big time. Across Europe royal heads were rolling, so in a bid to appear more in touch with the struggles of the common people, the upper classes in England started toning down how they dress and speak, and adopting more English sounding words in a show of both national unity and in a bid to blend in.

By the late 1800’s, all U’s were saying “pudding”, like the working classes. Some middle classes were still saying “dessert”, but not for very long, as they often tend to follow the U’s. So then the middle classes started saying pudding too! Confused? I don’t blame you.

Today, the term “dessert” sounds pretentious because of its origins and because it is assumed that people use it to sound sophisticated.

Interesting!

So maybe U really started as just an anti-Napoleonic trend, similar to that phase in the 90s and early 2000s, when posh kids adopted Estuary accents in an attempt to blend in? Probably as a result of New Labour and Cool Britannia. Since David Cameron and Made in Chelsea, it's fashionable to be a toff again.

I still maintain that U is way more pretentious and affected these days. The people I know who make a point of it are very posh, and very vocal about which words are correct, which is far more Hyacinth Bucket than saying "dessert" or "serviette".

JFDIYOLO · 11/01/2023 00:22

Now this thread has started me thinking ...
Loo or if we're feeling fancy - bog

Lunch is 1ish
Tea is sandwiches, scones, victoria sponge ... and tea, usually Sunday afternoon
Dinner is about 7ish and always some kind of pud

(I had a friend at school who called it supper. It sometimes involved ven'sin.)

NoBoatsOnSunday · 11/01/2023 00:25

Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner (sometimes ‘tea’)
Dessert

Then it’s off to the shitter.

Gonnabegrandma · 11/01/2023 00:40

Dessert but when I was growing up it was afters ( fond memories not thought of that for years )