Page 32 | To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

QuertyGirl · 2023-01-10T12:38:44+00:00

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid. Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers. People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP. Why can't we make housing estates more like that? Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them. Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

CuteOrangeElephant · 13/01/2023 11:49

jannier · 13/01/2023 11:37

How does it help disabled as in all disabled not just labelled ones

Show quote history

For starters the ones that can not drive but can cycle or walk. They won't have to rely on carers as much if they can get themselves to the GP, supermarket or library.

Secondly people might have good days or bad days. It would be beneficial for people to have the option to walk to their local shops if they feel they are up for it. That will reduce costs and keep people fitter whilst having the option to leave the car at home.

It will help carers. In the Netherlands there are plenty of carers who do not have a car, they can cycle between clients. On an electric bike you can be almost as quick as in a car on short to medium distances and they are a lot cheaper to run. I had friends that were medical students that used to do this job during the summer holidays. They wouldn't buy a car for 3 months.

Children being able to walk or cycle to school by themselves will also benefit people who otherwise might struggle. I used to cycle 5 miles to school everyday. Almost no one was driven in. Even some disabled kids would cycle in. There was one girl with (I think) cerebral palsy who came on a trike. Not sure how far she had to go though.

jannier · 13/01/2023 12:25

CuteOrangeElephant · 13/01/2023 11:49

For starters the ones that can not drive but can cycle or walk. They won't have to rely on carers as much if they can get themselves to the GP, supermarket or library.

Secondly people might have good days or bad days. It would be beneficial for people to have the option to walk to their local shops if they feel they are up for it. That will reduce costs and keep people fitter whilst having the option to leave the car at home.

It will help carers. In the Netherlands there are plenty of carers who do not have a car, they can cycle between clients. On an electric bike you can be almost as quick as in a car on short to medium distances and they are a lot cheaper to run. I had friends that were medical students that used to do this job during the summer holidays. They wouldn't buy a car for 3 months.

Children being able to walk or cycle to school by themselves will also benefit people who otherwise might struggle. I used to cycle 5 miles to school everyday. Almost no one was driven in. Even some disabled kids would cycle in. There was one girl with (I think) cerebral palsy who came on a trike. Not sure how far she had to go though.

Show quote history

None of the things you say are impossible now...but not many can walk or cycle but hang on to those few ...by carers I mean us unpaid lot the real carers and when I get there 3 miles one way back 2 miles other direction then 2 back to first house then check in on number 3 before home for lunch and work then out again..to houses 1, 2 and 3 I have to be physically able to help them to lift wash meds get them out to appointments ...6 mile cycle to hospital following a disabled scooter.( Shit it's tipped over run out of charge, Christ it's raining and that's just invalidated the rescue service) ...I'm 60 this month and still working just gone down to a 44 hour week ..when have I got time and physical strength to cycle unaffordable electric bike or not ( husband does cycle mountain bikes and road bikes every day to work he's 61 so we know how expensive they are).
Carers in England would laugh at having 3 clients a day by the way ....that's a holiday...which is why they start putting to bed at 4pm. When my mum had one they got her up at 8 she was second on the round some still waiting at 10. Once you need lifting it's harder as with a hoist they still need 2 ....but I'm sure with all the lifting and physical work they do a nice gentle cycle ride is just the tonic.
I used to walk 5 miles to school ....nowadays no parent would let their child through the underpass of the M4 they would have to cross or past the asylum hostel with men drinking outside it.

Original poster

QuertyGirl · 13/01/2023 12:31

@jannier

You need more support, that's not sustainable over the long term.

I don't think that your problems having anything to do with traffic control.

Hope you get some respite soon.

OP posts:

jannier · 13/01/2023 12:32

QuertyGirl · 13/01/2023 11:44

@jannier

1, Nobody wants to ban cars

2, No single change will fix everything for every disabled person. We're a diverse group. Right now, we actively discriminate against anyone (disabled or not) who doe's have access to a car.

Do we? it's going to cost me £12 a day just to do the car for my family soon because I'll be paying Ulez to get to them (plus diesel etc) or be spending 3 hours twice a day doing the bus routes. I'm sure someone will tell me the £1000 or so grant will make the £6000 replacement affordable along with the £385 scrap value because nobody wants the old one. I get as an old man (I think that's what you said stuck by a road? ) You don't drive but do you think the world would be easier to get around just by having no main road to cross are you always going to manage getting to a shop or will you need lifts at some point?

tigger1001 · 13/01/2023 12:33

"Lots could be done in rural locations though that's not being done. I used to live in quite a rural village, which had some facilities of it's own but the GP, bigger supermarket, health visitor appointments, gym, swimming etc was a village over 3 miles away. Options for cycling were either a very busy road or a broken canal path. Buses weren't great.

If the council had made a proper separated cycle path along the busy road I would have bought a bike and my life would have been easier (no more relying on DH who took the only car with him to work).

You know who would have had the biggest benefit of this? Teenagers. They wouldn't have had to be stuck in a village with not much to do."

I don't disagree with what you are saying but I suspect local geography (as well as money) will influence whether there could be cycle paths etc - where I am I suspect that's not hugely practical but can see how it would work in other places.

Cycling for me on a personal level locally, (busy road aside) isn't helpful due to the distance required.

I am in Scotland and teenagers up to the ages of 22 now get free bus travel. And while the bus service isn't great due to its limited service, it does give them more independence. He uses it to go to stuff after school and I then collect him on the way home from work. Ironically what is true locally is rural kids use the bus, despite limited services where as kids in the bigger town with better public transport get lifts places.

As always, it comes down to money. Local services are already being squeezed and basic services are being affected. So I suspect things like this are in the "nice to have" list but not a priority. All the while bus services face cuts, which increases the use of cars etc.

CuteOrangeElephant · 13/01/2023 12:37

jannier · 13/01/2023 12:25

None of the things you say are impossible now...but not many can walk or cycle but hang on to those few ...by carers I mean us unpaid lot the real carers and when I get there 3 miles one way back 2 miles other direction then 2 back to first house then check in on number 3 before home for lunch and work then out again..to houses 1, 2 and 3 I have to be physically able to help them to lift wash meds get them out to appointments ...6 mile cycle to hospital following a disabled scooter.( Shit it's tipped over run out of charge, Christ it's raining and that's just invalidated the rescue service) ...I'm 60 this month and still working just gone down to a 44 hour week ..when have I got time and physical strength to cycle unaffordable electric bike or not ( husband does cycle mountain bikes and road bikes every day to work he's 61 so we know how expensive they are).
Carers in England would laugh at having 3 clients a day by the way ....that's a holiday...which is why they start putting to bed at 4pm. When my mum had one they got her up at 8 she was second on the round some still waiting at 10. Once you need lifting it's harder as with a hoist they still need 2 ....but I'm sure with all the lifting and physical work they do a nice gentle cycle ride is just the tonic.
I used to walk 5 miles to school ....nowadays no parent would let their child through the underpass of the M4 they would have to cross or past the asylum hostel with men drinking outside it.

Show quote history

Where am I saying Dutch carers only have 3 clients a day?
Where am I saying you have to follow a mobility scooter to the hospital for 6 miles? You are doing a lot of extrapolating of things I have never said.

Princesspollyyy · 13/01/2023 12:37

My car is expensive and cost a lot of money, i would not want to park it out of sight, where there's more opportunity for it to be stolen.

CuteOrangeElephant · 13/01/2023 12:40

tigger1001 · 13/01/2023 12:33

"Lots could be done in rural locations though that's not being done. I used to live in quite a rural village, which had some facilities of it's own but the GP, bigger supermarket, health visitor appointments, gym, swimming etc was a village over 3 miles away. Options for cycling were either a very busy road or a broken canal path. Buses weren't great.

If the council had made a proper separated cycle path along the busy road I would have bought a bike and my life would have been easier (no more relying on DH who took the only car with him to work).

You know who would have had the biggest benefit of this? Teenagers. They wouldn't have had to be stuck in a village with not much to do."

I don't disagree with what you are saying but I suspect local geography (as well as money) will influence whether there could be cycle paths etc - where I am I suspect that's not hugely practical but can see how it would work in other places.

Cycling for me on a personal level locally, (busy road aside) isn't helpful due to the distance required.

I am in Scotland and teenagers up to the ages of 22 now get free bus travel. And while the bus service isn't great due to its limited service, it does give them more independence. He uses it to go to stuff after school and I then collect him on the way home from work. Ironically what is true locally is rural kids use the bus, despite limited services where as kids in the bigger town with better public transport get lifts places.

As always, it comes down to money. Local services are already being squeezed and basic services are being affected. So I suspect things like this are in the "nice to have" list but not a priority. All the while bus services face cuts, which increases the use of cars etc.

Completely agree it's impossible now under the current system. The change has to come from higher up.

It's disgusting what's been done to council budgets in the UK.

jannier · 13/01/2023 13:10

CuteOrangeElephant · 13/01/2023 12:37

Where am I saying Dutch carers only have 3 clients a day?
Where am I saying you have to follow a mobility scooter to the hospital for 6 miles? You are doing a lot of extrapolating of things I have never said.

Show quote history

No your saying carers could ride between clients like in the lovely flat Netherlands I'm saying carers have more than just visiting a house ..they take people out.....and if I took my bike I'd have to follow a scooter...
Your also assuming that it's a nice light job with a few clients close by...the professional carers I know it's lots of clients time slots that are one end of town 5 miles plus then the other then another direction all run run run...not the Netherlands picture you portray of medical students summer jobs....you have to have an NVQ to be a carer now so it's not likely you just pick it up for a month or two here anyway.

jannier · 13/01/2023 13:15

QuertyGirl · 13/01/2023 12:31

@jannier

You need more support, that's not sustainable over the long term.

I don't think that your problems having anything to do with traffic control.

Hope you get some respite soon.

Been doing it for best part of 10 years even when I was going through chemo I was on the phone organising and paying for carers ....my point is without a car....or access to ones outside the various houses life would be much harder....and I'm not the only one whether it's caring for 1 or more not having easy access at the door is another obstacle to getting out.

user1468656818 · 13/01/2023 13:20

jannier · 13/01/2023 13:10

No your saying carers could ride between clients like in the lovely flat Netherlands I'm saying carers have more than just visiting a house ..they take people out.....and if I took my bike I'd have to follow a scooter...
Your also assuming that it's a nice light job with a few clients close by...the professional carers I know it's lots of clients time slots that are one end of town 5 miles plus then the other then another direction all run run run...not the Netherlands picture you portray of medical students summer jobs....you have to have an NVQ to be a carer now so it's not likely you just pick it up for a month or two here anyway.

Show quote history

Hence why we need government, council, house builders and planners to make systemic change and build dense neighbourhoods with services in walkable distances

Pedallleur · 13/01/2023 13:31

zermatt in Switzerland has been this way for many years

CuteOrangeElephant · 13/01/2023 13:40

user1468656818 · 13/01/2023 13:20

Hence why we need government, council, house builders and planners to make systemic change and build dense neighbourhoods with services in walkable distances

Show quote history

I find it obscene that a lot of carers aren't paid for their travel between jobs. Make the care agencies pay for time and true travel expenses and I bet the schedule could be a lot better for the carer...

user1468656818 · 13/01/2023 13:41

Pedallleur · 13/01/2023 13:31

zermatt in Switzerland has been this way for many years

But the weather is tropical there, and there is no old or disabled people and it’s all totally flat

oh… wait!

Snowpixi · 13/01/2023 13:58

Such things do exist to a point and some councils are working to make progress, google 20 minute neighbourhoods and low emission neighbourhoods.

a charity called Living Streets is working hard to help create these type of estates.

Devoutspoken · 13/01/2023 14:09

Princespolly - not sure expensive cars should take priority over people's health

Princesspollyyy · 13/01/2023 14:26

Devoutspoken · 13/01/2023 14:09

Princespolly - not sure expensive cars should take priority over people's health

I can't help what car I've got. I'm not about to let it get stolen.

Original poster

QuertyGirl · 13/01/2023 15:22

@Princesspollyyy

So it was forced on you?

OP posts:

Pedallleur · 13/01/2023 15:36

Princesspollyyy · 13/01/2023 12:37

My car is expensive and cost a lot of money, i would not want to park it out of sight, where there's more opportunity for it to be stolen.

2 x villains with a baseball bat and a scanner will have your car in seconds whether you can see them or not. What do you when you go on holiday or to the supermarket. You cant see it then.

Kazzyhoward · 13/01/2023 17:08

Pedallleur · 13/01/2023 15:36

2 x villains with a baseball bat and a scanner will have your car in seconds whether you can see them or not. What do you when you go on holiday or to the supermarket. You cant see it then.

Show quote history

Airport car parks and supermarket car parks usually have good security, good lighting, CCTV, etc., so aren't attractive to the local yobs to damage or steal. I wouldn't go to a supermarket whose car park didn't feel safe whether due to poor lighting, yobs hanging around or whatever.

Residential parking that's not directly outside your home is usually in a dark corner somewhere, with poor lighting, no CCTV, etc.

See the difference.

Dutch1e · 13/01/2023 18:48

CuteOrangeElephant · 13/01/2023 00:27

You know what. I am giving up on this thread.

It's an injustice that so many people in the UK can not travel easily because there is a refusal to even entertain not using cars as much. 50% of disabled people don't drive but they don't seem to factor in this discussion.

I personally know a lot of people who would not have the freedom they would have now if they lived in the UK, versus living in my town in the Netherlands where they can go anywhere in town without having to buy, insure, tax a car and spend serious money getting a licence in the first in the place.

This includes my great-uncle who used a hand-propelled wheelchair, my two old neighbours in their mobility scooters and my brother's ex who had a seizure and wasn't allowed to drive.

I am really glad I left. Quality of life is so much better and it has cost me one secondhand bike to enjoy everything in a 10 mile radius.

Me too. I've been reading along since my comment many many pages ago and all I see is:

A) abominable urban planning. Most of the Uk is no different to the Netherlands in its ability to have all amenities within 20 minutes walk/cycle (or 5 minutes in the little Canta Cars for the physically disabled who can't use a bicycle). It just chooses not to.

B) Whinging. One person had to carry their groceries an entire hundred yards. Two trips even! The horror.

Addicted2Kale · 13/01/2023 20:21

I would only support this for housing estates filled with people who don't pay their own mortgage or rent. Why would I buy a home with no doorstep parking provision.

MoiraDavidson · 14/01/2023 07:52

What you lose in a parking space outside your house, you gain in a safe space for kids to play together and neighbours to socialise, less polluted air around your home.

whatkatydid2013 · 14/01/2023 13:14

Addicted2Kale · 13/01/2023 20:21

I would only support this for housing estates filled with people who don't pay their own mortgage or rent. Why would I buy a home with no doorstep parking provision.

I’m a home owner and I’d totally go for this. Actually I half did as we bought on a pedestrian street. It’s awesome for the kids and it encourages residents to think if they really need a car or at least really need more than one car. You do realise building estates like this wouldn’t mean you had to live on one?

superdupernova · 14/01/2023 18:45

MoiraDavidson · 14/01/2023 07:52

What you lose in a parking space outside your house, you gain in a safe space for kids to play together and neighbours to socialise, less polluted air around your home.

I don't have kids. Have plenty of friends. I smoke. None of those "pros" are worth the inconvenience 😂