To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

[QuertyGirl]

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

There are many different types of disabilities, both temporary/short-term or permanent/long-term. People are not always going to have or even want the perfect mobility aid for any particular purpose.

Allowing for individuals of all ability levels to do all the things they can is an argument in favor of design that allows for cars of some sort, but it is a much stronger argument for comprehensive safe bike lanes and pavements and an argument against car-only or car-centric design.

Kdrama - you can get shopping delivered, and not drive to the gym, run, cycle?

It’s a great idea for some places. Others it would be harder to make it work. We should try though. We need to do something to make it less automatic to just constantly use cars for everything. So many people drive kids to/from school where I live and return home. It’s a 5-6 min drive vs a 7-8 min walk so they are saving themselves possibly a whole 10 minutes a day. It’s utter bollocks most people do it because they have to or they are disabled. They basically do it out of habit. I used to as well and then I realised how silly it was and I stopped

Tigger1001 - so having your xhopp8ng delivered is more expensive than running a car?

I absolutely agree we need to stop people driving needlessly.

I work in a school. I have colleagues who lives in the same street practically that we are based on, it would take them 3 mins max to walk from their door to the car park of the school. Yet they often bring their car!

I am 1.5 miles from work which is just that bit too far for me, especially as I have to bring my lap top to and from work but also, I often get called out to visit other schools which are spread over different towns, even counties so not having my car with me isn't practical.

We do live in the town centre though so on a weekend we walk to talk and local supermarket when we need to and only take the car if we are going for a heavy shop.

As long as this is not mandatory and the current ability to park beside your house remains in many areas, I can't see a problem with people wanting to opt for this lifestyle buying houses in areas built for this purpose. I can imagine this is a lifestyle that some people would enjoy but it isn't for everyone.

I personally would not want to live somewhere where my car was a 15 minute walk from my house. I work long hours, am also studying for a degree, as well as having the rest of the daily life/chores/admin/cooking/cleaning to do, as well as finding time to simply rest! I can get a lot done in 15 minutes (or multiples of 15 if I've had to do more than 1 trip from my car with whatever luggage/shopping I've got to carry), and I wouldn't want to have to do that in all weathers.

On the two evenings a week I go to sport clubs, I have a 20 minute turnaround from arriving home at work to leaving again. In that time I have to get changed, get my kit ready, cram some food down my throat and then rush out the house again. A 15 minute walk added to this would not allow me to arrive in time to those clubs.

People say "no one wants to give up their conveniences", and they might be correct, but why should we? I am more than active enough, I am healthy, I don't need the enforced exercise. I pay for my own car, my own driveway and my insurance is more affordable because my car is kept on my drive. I often get home from work and have to go back out to all sorts of places - if it's raining and my car is 15 minutes away, I am drenched when I get home and then drenched again by the time I get back to the car. Why would this be preferable over remaining dry? I'm not a martyr, I like being comfortable, I like being able to nip back to my car to grab something I've forgotten, or do 2+ trips when bringing in shopping.

Plenty of people do manage without cars and that is their choice. I prefer to have access to a car without having to do a 30 minute round walk to access it and that works better for me. My lifestyle isn't everyone's cup of tea but this proposed lifestyle certainly isn't mine. All of that being said, I would have no objections to other people living in that way.

Oopsanotherone, no one is asking you to be a martyr, its about opening your thinking to reducing car use, not banning - rain coats work well in the rain and supermarkets deliver

We've stopped doing supermarket deliveries after we've found they often don't have the cheapest own brand stuff. Most of the time we actually do walk to our local supermarket with a rucksack but there's a limit as to what either of us feel up to hauling back. Once in a while we'll need that massive bag of spuds or box of washing powder and that's when we drive and do a big shop maybe once a month.

In this no cars neighborhood would you have to wait for your shopping to be delivered to the communal car park and carry it all home?

I need a car to get to work.

@Devoutspoken I shop at Lidl and they don't deliver. I go to the gym because I have a spinal injury from 20 years ago, so to avoid having my spine wired, my surgeon agreed that I could continue Pilates to strengthen my core to hold my spine in place. As I got stronger (and older, I'm almost 70) over the years I've added strength, stability and swimming. The gym is 5 miles away and the road to it is twisty, National speed limit and the verge is actually the edge of fields. You would have a choice of knee high grass or take your chances dodging traffic on the road.
I haven't cycled since I was 14 and don't fancy my chances of wobbling, probably falling and breaking a bone, while attempting to cycle to the gym.
Sometimes you just have to believe people when they say that driving a car means freedom and independence.

@jannier One legged cyclists are a common occurrence with amputees, but they qualify for a blue badge due to walking issues

we used to have a one legged cyclist in town, but he used a wooden peg on the peddle.

But people who can walk or ride a bike are not the issue if you can't walk or need to use a disability scooter then load/unload it there is an issue with not parking nearby....coming from a family with a variety of disability some born with some injuries I'm well aware of the ranges they can take....the 90 odd percent of disable find it easier to ride a bike is the issue because if your counting disabilities that have no mobility issue it's not a fair argument in the context of this debate. Although my autistic nephew can just about manage the front door to the drive to go out...in the dark no lights on in car...he won't walk because people may see him as that upsets him sending him into anxiety.

Only on the day and time the supermarket picks apparently tough if your still at work

but why should we?

because it causes the premature deaths of around 50000 people annually in U.K. from pollution

its not an all or nothing situation either, it’s a reduction and change. No one is suggesting banning private ownership

Why assume because you can go to a gym you're able bodied enough to walk or cycle....are you now excluding disabled from gyms? Have you heard of chair exercise, swimming for the disabled. Can a wheelchair user not lift weights ....your attitude to disability smacks of keep them in a home away from us.

If you are truly disabled not a broken leg you do want the perfect mobility solution and independence.....is your opinion coming from a truly mobility impaired point of view or a bystanders guess?

Can you physically walk? Do you live somewhere where there is one bus in and one bus out a day ....arriving withing a 2 hour slot or no bus at all?

People-centric infrastructure would, by definition be focused on the needs of the people, including sick and disabled individuals. This includes public transport with special adjustments for wheelchair accessibility.

I hope your nephews quality of life improves in the future.

You are luckier than me then, @SavoirFlair. Without a car on the drive, I would have no independence or freedom. And that is not an excuse - it is the simple fact.

I think what has changed most is the way people shop and live.

Firstly, shopping is so much cheaper if you can go to a big supermarket and buy bigger quantities (e.g. 1kg bag of pasta is cheaper per 100g than a 500g bag). If you are driving to the big supermarket, you want to make it worth the time and petrol money, so you want to buy a decent amount. Carrying back that amount with a small child or two even for 10-15 mins would be a nightmare.

Secondly, I feel that we live much 'faster' than I did as a child. It is rare to have a stay at home parent (in my circles at least). Children therefore must fit around jobs. If you are working from home, the 15 minutes to walk to the car to drop/pick up your child from nursery/childminder/school might be the one hour difference between being able to manage your childcare alongside a full time job, and that's assuming you are not also racing your child around in the school-dinner-scouts/swimming lesson-home in time for bed loop.

I think your idea is lovely, and I for one would embrace it, but it would be difficult to make it work in today's society.

You do realise only 55% of disabled people in England aged 17-64 hold a full driving licence, compared with 83% of non-disabled people (though disabled people are much more likely to travel as passengers in a car or taxi). therefore action to reduce unnecessary traffic would be good for disabled people who must use a car, and it would also improve the lives of those who don’t, be they disabled or not

Firstly, shopping is so much cheaper if you can go to a big supermarket and buy bigger quantities (e.g. 1kg bag of pasta is cheaper per 100g than a 500g bag).

it’s cheaper to buy on Amazon rather than supermarket for bulk items, toilet paper, pasta, coffee can be sourced on Amazon cheaper

Unlikely he's lived mostly in his room since he was 16 and is now 30 his wheelchair bound mum has cancer and also needs a bypass so his anxiety is only going one way. I guess it's going to be one less car for the anti cars to worry about but how in car free eutopia I would be able to drive to his door to get him out even to a GP I don't know..... irrelevant because Ulez is going to see me carless and jobless and my husband won't be able to replace his work van so we will be home claiming benefits....and my disabled brother housebound too as I drive him...were a real lucky family

Yes I'm well aware the mobility allowance is insufficient for many to get a motobility vehicle because they then have to be able to afford running costs....the additional monies now required mean that bigger wheelchair accessible cars or high cars easy to transfer to now require a higher financial contribution...that there are few adapted learner cars to learn in or instructors willing to do it, and that being the only fit enough driver for 4 disabled people living in 3 different home to mine means if there were less traffic I'd get the 3 or miles between them and to any of the 4 different hospitals a lot quicker....but I also understand other people need cars and have problems....and it still does not alter the argument that every physically disabled person would want the best most accessible transport and their independence they don't want to rely on others to drive them or to see others lift and load disability scooters more than needed because they now need it out in their hallway blocking access to drive down to their car where an able bodied weigh lifter has to load it before they start their journey....a nice additional half hour and back strain.

Exactly @jannier