To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

[QuertyGirl]

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

And?

What I'm getting at, is that default mode of transport that we have (cars) is dependent on money and good health.

Better public transport, cycling and walking provision could give a lot of people their freedom back. Real freedom, not dependent on being able to run and drive a car. Freedom that almost anyone can have.

I think the problem here is that people are thinking of the standard British housing development, whereas in fact, the ones that are designed to be car-free look very different - smaller, for a start, and more cohesive. It's a pity people have such closed minds. I do understand many of the issues raised here, but nevertheless, car-free estates don't seem to be a problem where they exist in other countries. Maybe they're not for everyone, but it would be nice to see some for the people who would love to embrace that sort of lifestyle.

It's happening to my parents now - it was rural growing up but now I say semirural now.

It's actually easier now than ever before to live without a car - so many places deliver - Specsavers new home services is fantastic, supermarkets and even smaller shops now do home deliveries.

Ideally I'd have liked them to move somewhere with closer services but they haven't but still in their 70 they can both use computers and internet so can still be independent. Having car right outside had meant DMum could get Dad to the car for much longer so they remained mobile for longer.

We don't drive and do rely on taxis on occasions - we live in a city having both grown up fairly rural and do spend more on train journeys which are frequently longer and more expensive than car journeys would be - but that's what it is we save on car running costs most of the time.

I would love better train and bus services for everyone - and at minute they are getting less reliable and more expensive - but even I'm getting fed us of this sudden and very pushed narrative that we need to make car drivers the enemy. Were as in reality what's need to make it easier to not dive so changes that deprioritising cars face less opposition as people have other options and know that.

Hit post too soon.

I hope OP realizes this is not only an issue in car-dependent areas but something that applies to many people. My answer is based on my DM’s experience.
Never learnt to drive. Lives in walking distance to shops. Has a bus service but no railway station nearby. Therefore this is neither a car-dependent area nor a car-dependent person.
Increasing mobility problems mean walking is getting more difficult and using the bus isn’t really an option anymore.
Travels further than she can walk only when necessary and usually by taxi.

I am in a car-dependent area.

If my DH and I no longer had the ability to drive, we would be forced to move.

@Mary54

I'm sorry for your Mum but she may have lost her independence a lot sooner in a dependent area.

My Aunt lived in an area like that; got macular degeneration and lost her license.

Housebound with no family nearby. Not fun.

There's been at least one other similar situation on this thread.

Those living in a car-dependent area:

my best friend is blind and busses are infrequent at best. Works within walking distance but has to walk a strange way to work to allow for crossing at pedestrian crossing.

Relies on taxis and deliveroo, online shopping, chop chop, school bus - which doesn't always turn up and school get angry with her dd not attending...

Doesn't go out a great deal alone, struggles with pavement parking or abandoned vehicles in odd places they shouldn't be

@Bideshi

People often don't like change, even if its positive change and they can be very suspicious of change. Unfortunately that is human nature.

As someone said up thread, cessation of smoking in public buildings was not welcomed and plastic bag charing was unpopular. Now though I bet most people don't even consider it a problem

@QuertyGirl "Disability is the reason I don't drive"

Is the sub text that if you weren't, you would drive?
Why are you so judgy anyway? Not everyone goes to the gym to have "insta" bodies.
Would you be happy to contribute to the extra costs involved in insuring, cctv, securing and maintaining the estate CP even if you don't own a car?

It's not a daft idea per se, as the people who are willing to pay a premium for no cars on the estate will live there. Inflated house price, yes, because no builder will sacrifice building land to make a car park instead. Less return for builder so house unit price will be higher to cover revenue shortfall.

I don't think it would necessarily have to be one massive car park 15 mins away from housing requiring security! I'm sure a scheme could be designed with several smaller car parking areas that are maybe just a few minutes walk to housing but which would still allow car free zones. I think it would really help foster a sense of community as well as allowing children to roam about safely.

Doesn't always work though.

doesn't mean it shouldn't be done where it can work, and LTN are being rolled out in more and more places.

I live in a town where they build an entire estate based on LTN and grass in the front of peoples houses and garages at the back of each house - so not only where they LTN they were easy to park cars and close to the house, just at the rear of the property

All the cars are in the garages or beside the garage, grass between the front doors and a large grass area in the middle of the horseshoe shape

no cars outside any front doors

The rear of the property idea could have legs with decent garages that things could be taken through to. Most of us have seen too many badly thought out developments done on the cheap so we're going to be cynical about anything really.

Well, that's fair enough and must be very difficult but plenty of other children are able to play outside and would benefit. No one here is talking about absolutely every single housing development being transformed in this way - although there have been already examples of set-ups that wouldn't require anything like 10mn walk to get to a car.

So many close minded people on this thread who would use any possible reason to justify car ownership.

I have a car, but I’m not defined by having a car. It’s not my “freedom”, it’s not my “independence”.

A comment coming from a position of privilege. I am dependent on my car because I live in a semi-rural area. Supermarket and doctor are on the other side of a busy dual carriageway, gym is 5 miles away on twisty road with no pavements. No cross country buses, so school which is 9 miles away in the city would take 15 min walk down a steep hill to nearest bus stop and require a change of bus. Some people are not addicted, but dependent on their car.

So I am an able bodied woman I work 20 miles from home. On a morning I have to leave by 7:40 to start work at 8:30 but need to drop DS at breakfast club at 7:45 1st. Only bus which will get me to work for 8:30 leaves ours at 7:10, DH leaves for work at 7 so can't do the school run either. He then has to be picked up by 17:45 if not at grandmas bus wouldn't get me back until 18:30 and DH gets in around 18:00. So my commute + childcare means I can't do my job unless we have a car. We both work weekends and buses don't run early enough on a Sunday to make that possible.

Getting everywhere is quicker by car vs bike/bus/walking which frees up more time for social activities like DS's clubs and me getting the gym 4miles away from home. I wouldn't give up the freedom and time saving of having a car for the £300 a month it would save. If me and DH wanted to go car free we would save around £500 a month but would need to employ a nanny at 2k a month! Kids don't need to play in the street that's what green spaces and garden are for. The issue is more our determination to get rid of cars instead of going down the suburbs route to commute to work by cars (duel carriageways to link the areas without pedestrian crossing that slow down traffic)!!

For many people not having their car would make their lives more limited and more expensive. I get the negatives of too many cars but let's not pretend we'd return to some idealised version of the past.

And yes 2 miles might not be far to walk or cycle but on a twisty road with no pavement it would be bloody terrifying.

There is no public transport where I live; a peaceful rural area surrounded by farms. My car is synonymous with freedom and independence. I know that as soon as I can no longer drive I will have to sell up and move into some built up area with walking distance facilities.
I feel that I am very lucky to be able to live where I do now, even if with the downside of compulsory car ownership and no mains gas connection.

If it happened due to age, hopefully I would be retired. So work would hopefully not be an issue. If it happened when I was working, I wouldn't be able to carry on working unless I could work from home. Shopping would need to be delivered, but that makes it more expensive - by the choice of the shop and the delivery charge. Buses are not ideal.

What happens currently with my mil is family members do her main shop and she tops up at the local shop. She doesn't go out much at all any more, but needs lifts if she does.

If me and DH wanted to go car free we would save around £500 a month
What? How on earth does running a car cost you £500 every month?

You could easily spend £500 a month if you are on a leasing plan.

Love to see people who can't move their legs to walk peddle a bike what utter rubbish if you can climb stairs, walk, or move without pain how can you peddle a bike? So the biking disabled don't need a blue badge mobility is not their disability.

I used to live in a flat, and the car was parked a hundred yards away. That was bad enough, with having to lug several shopping bags in the British weather, quite often needing two trips, and I didn't even have dc at the time either.

Sorry OP, but it is a terrible idea.

It wasn't mine ... My legs were my freedom and my independence.... Then through no fault of my own I developed a debilitating neuromuscular junction disorder. If I move too much my body stops sending any messages from my brain to my muscles. This happened to me today. I thought I would manage the few hundred metres on a site visit. By the time I was done I couldn't walk properly, speak properly or swallow safely.

I now see how lucky I was to not be dependent on a car.

But yeah, keep implying disabled people are lazy or can use a bike.