Page 2 | After school detention every time they're late...

OhBitchPeas · 2023-01-09T08:21:29+00:00

Is that usual for secondary schools? If you're 2 mins or 2 hours late it's an after school detention every time. Is that the usual? If

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 09/01/2023 13:42

Sounds like something most schools do - although I think lunchtime detention is a better idea and that one warning would also be a good idea.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 09/01/2023 13:43

I don’t even know what dd’s school does as she is never late - she’s very keen on punctuality and we live round the corner so unlikely anything could make her late beyond her control!

neverendinglauaundry · 09/01/2023 13:43

At DSs school it's a 30 Mon after school detention if they're any amount of late for any reason.
DDs school they don't seem to care

Notjusta · 09/01/2023 13:51

At our school it's 3 'strikes' on your strike card = after school detention. Strikes issued for various reasons - incorrect uniform, not having right equipment/kit, and being late. This includes being late for individual lessons as well as for registration.

Agree with PP that it sounds like the new head is, understandably, trying to instil some order to the shit show. Not nice for the kids to get used to but pretty common in the circumstances you describe.

I also, agree with the PP who said that schools have gone completely OTT with detentions/exclusion rooms etc.

Phos · 09/01/2023 14:08

I think it depends on the school. I think a detention for being 2 minutes late is a bit unfair especially if it's not on a regular basis. I'd expect a warning before a detention but perhaps I'm too lenient.

PinkyU · 09/01/2023 14:17

We don’t have detention in Scotland, at my dc school you’re recorded as late, persistent lateness without a good reason (health, young carer, school transport) may result in a demerit. Every school I know really works with children and families to address and support persistent lateness rather than immediately punishing the child.

How do after school detentions work? Surely there’s not a legal recourse to detain children at school against their will?

ilovesooty · 09/01/2023 14:18

OhBitchPeas · 09/01/2023 13:33

All of them.

Im not exaggerating.

That includes non-teaching staff as well. SENCO, deputy head, house heads.

All of them. It's an absolute shit show.

The SENCO told me that the English teacher is on sabbatical, the English teacher is one of the originals and apparently that's the only way she would return is if they agreed for her to have a sabbatical.

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I think in your situation I'd be more interested in the staff retention than the late detentions.

Duchess379 · 09/01/2023 14:23

This was standard practice when I was at secondary school 30yrs ago!! Don't be late every day.

Testina · 09/01/2023 14:33

OhBitchPeas · 09/01/2023 13:33

All of them.

Im not exaggerating.

That includes non-teaching staff as well. SENCO, deputy head, house heads.

All of them. It's an absolute shit show.

The SENCO told me that the English teacher is on sabbatical, the English teacher is one of the originals and apparently that's the only way she would return is if they agreed for her to have a sabbatical.

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My kids’ school has 1600 pupils, 170 staff, 100 of whom are teachers. It’s a larger than average school, but even half the size you’re talking about 50+ quitting en masse. That would have been all over your local papers, if not nationals.

Was there an Ofsted with an Inadequate, forcing a leadership change and possibly academy “takeover” where they used the change to sack people?

Even the people who wanted to leave, surely some would have the perfect part time hours that they wanted to keep, or were close to retirement and couldn’t be arsed to go…

All of them going (except one on sabbatical) - that’s a huge deal! If it wasn’t related to Ofsted report, wouldn’t that trigger some kind of intervention from Ofsted?

FunnysInLaJardin · 09/01/2023 14:35

Jimboscott0115 · 09/01/2023 13:38

Exactly this OP, detention used to be a big thing when I was as at school (left in '99 so not that long ago) but nowadays schools have confused instilling values and respect with discipline.

It's becoming very common for detentions to be dished out for everything you could think of nowadays and I think schools have it horribly wrong. I challenged it and received a patronising response around preparing kids for the world of work, cue me laughing when I told them most of their rules are irrelevant in most workplaces.

Unfortunately, this likely ties into the teaching issues where we've lost thousands upon thousands of good strong teaching staff due to incompetent government and have ended up with a lot less good, strong, experienced teachers.

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Agree with this.

DH is a secondary teacher with 25 years experience and desperate to get out.

Petty rules are the order of the day and not much care about the kids welfare. Just what looks good on the stats.

DS2 is in year 8 and one day the school bus was late and he got a detention. No compassion or understanding,

Honestly I cant wait for my family to have done with schools altogether.

MaverickGooseGoose · 09/01/2023 14:35

Its that standard here. Only mitigating circumstances are public transport issues that need to be proved, or they sometimes suspend the detentions if there are roadworks near the school.

Idtotallybangdreamoftheendlessnotgonnalie · 09/01/2023 14:35

Sounds like a good way to increase absences. "I'm late so I'll get a detention so I just won't go and fake a note from my mum in my student planner"

I bet the stress of immediate punishment doesn't help school refusal either.

Original poster

OhBitchPeas · 09/01/2023 14:50

Testina · 09/01/2023 14:33

My kids’ school has 1600 pupils, 170 staff, 100 of whom are teachers. It’s a larger than average school, but even half the size you’re talking about 50+ quitting en masse. That would have been all over your local papers, if not nationals.

Was there an Ofsted with an Inadequate, forcing a leadership change and possibly academy “takeover” where they used the change to sack people?

Even the people who wanted to leave, surely some would have the perfect part time hours that they wanted to keep, or were close to retirement and couldn’t be arsed to go…

All of them going (except one on sabbatical) - that’s a huge deal! If it wasn’t related to Ofsted report, wouldn’t that trigger some kind of intervention from Ofsted?

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I've just looked on news and there's nothing.

Their last Ofsted inspection was 2015 and a short one in 2018

I guess I don't know about all the staff.

But every subject teacher that my y11 son had, the SENCO (x2) the heads of house and the deputy heads (x4) and the head teachers all left.

However fair enough in 21/22 when it was all supply teachers, I only had one child there.

When I mentioned to the SENCO about all the staff leaving (she is new) she didn't correct me, she just nodded and did an "eeek" face.

OP posts:

TheChosenTwo · 09/01/2023 14:58

Fairly standard at the senior school my dds went to until July last year. Dd1 was never late, dd2 probably had 4 detentions due to lateness in 5 years so hardly a big issue. It was about 3-5 minutes late each time to registration/form time so not eating into lesson time, and every time was because she woke up late. She’s quite a walk away from the school so she would always end up running most of the way to make sure she wasn’t too late.
it’s a fair sanction as far as I’m concerned, lateness is a big bugbear of mine and I think it can show disrespect if it’s a persistent issue. Of course it’s also sometimes just shitty unfortunate circumstances ie bus was late, dog ate my shoe, washing machine broke down with my wet clothes inside, car broke down etc but these things don’t tend to happen every day!

Delorestormborn · 09/01/2023 15:07

Yep.

Jimboscott0115 · 09/01/2023 19:15

FunnysInLaJardin · 09/01/2023 14:35

Agree with this.

DH is a secondary teacher with 25 years experience and desperate to get out.

Petty rules are the order of the day and not much care about the kids welfare. Just what looks good on the stats.

DS2 is in year 8 and one day the school bus was late and he got a detention. No compassion or understanding,

Honestly I cant wait for my family to have done with schools altogether.

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Feel for your DH because it must be crap and yep - your example is exactly the sort of crap I mean. It doesn't reach the kids anything other than to dislike their teachers who are often both inexperienced and lack experience of any other workplaces to impart actual life lessons which I remember were always touched on during classes (anecdotes etc).

lieselotte · 09/01/2023 19:18

PollyEsther · 09/01/2023 09:09

Absolutely the norm. The days of detention being a punishment with actual meaning are long gone. They're dished out for every transgression these days, not like when we were younger and if you got detention you knew you'd pushed too far and gone over the line.

Exactly this.

But if the delay is not down to my child, I'd take it up with them. Any punishment has to be because the child was at fault, not a third party.

SmileWithADimple · 09/01/2023 19:18

Not normal at my DC's school - which is lucky as they get the bus and it isn't the most reliable!

lieselotte · 09/01/2023 19:19

We live 7 minutes' walk away from secondary school so ds was never late.

We were a 35 minute bus ride from his sixth form college so he was occasionally late then, but sixth form colleges are a bit more sensible.

Streamside · 09/01/2023 19:21

My local school sadly had a fatality after a child was kept in after school detention. An extremely rural area and the child was killed on their way home after having to take a late bus. The teacher didn't come back to school and it was horrendous for everyone. All detentions are now lunch time.

lieselotte · 09/01/2023 19:27

How do after school detentions work? Surely there’s not a legal recourse to detain children at school against their will?

In theory the school can insist, in practice they can't. A school isn't a prison. But if you refuse to do the detention it is escalated. So in ds' school if you didn't do a lunchtime detention you'd find yourself doing an hour after school, if you refused to do that it would be a Friday night detention with the head; if you didn't turn up for that I guess you'd be in temporary exclusion territory. But I think they'd engage with the parents first.

Starlightstarbright1 · 09/01/2023 19:30

New head often has a clear out of staff who are not prepared to change.

We had a new head a few years ago a dew left i was delighted about. The school is a far better school now.

And yes a new head like a new boss like to put there stamp on things. No tolerance is a common one. But considering the pressure schools are under for attendance lateness counts against that so not surprised on the crackdown.

Notellinganyone · 09/01/2023 19:31

PollyEsther · 09/01/2023 09:09

Absolutely the norm. The days of detention being a punishment with actual meaning are long gone. They're dished out for every transgression these days, not like when we were younger and if you got detention you knew you'd pushed too far and gone over the line.

I’m a teacher and very glad I don’t teach in a school with such draconian rules. I think it’s inhumane.

Believ · 09/01/2023 19:37

My DD has had maybe 3 lates in the 3 years she's been there, never had detention. 1 late for 2 mins seems OTT. But it sounds like it's been a shit show there so I can understand the clamping down to probably try and achieve better outcomes?

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 19:40

Detention won’t make them on time to school though. What happens if you refuse to accept the detentions?