To think the NHS has already failed.

[Goingforplatinum]

5 hour wait for a cat1 ambulance for a child. Unresponsive patients being taken to hospital by neighbours. 90 hour wait in A&E, unsafe staffing on wards, 7 month wait for coil or implant fitting. The NHS isn't failing. We need to admit its failed

Last time i had it done at the GP surgery was around 1996 ish

I'm not sure they would unless waiting times reduce ... Most people would pay a tenner to avoid waiting 4 plus hours

And where's the money coming from for this extra bureaucracy? have charges for visiting the doctor and it'll be sliding scales how old you are, what conditions you have, how many times you've missed an appointment before, what benefits you're on, how many children do you have, do you have your own transport to appointments or do you rely on public transport, how many appointments missed before you get charged and what's your income? that's before we get into who chases this up and does it affect your credit score and what's the penalty for not paying?

Before you know it the scheme costs three times what it brings in.

@Goosefatroasts

But people cant get to see a GP now, if they were told you have to ring at 8am, wait 30 mins to get through to be told there no appointments left 5 days in a row, to finally get a phone consultation at some undisclosed point during the day, to finally be issues a prescription but as its 4.30pm that will be sent to a pharmacy the following monday and you have to pay and extra £10 for the privilege, people will go to a&e etc more

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

Ireland manage it just fine with zero sliding scales.

This is the UK. Remember the 'flat rate state pension' that turned out to be nothing of the sort?

Honestly, I'm sick of reading stuff like this.

If people think the NHS has failed they should feel free not to use it.

Those of us working day in and day out are helping people the best we can. Many people get help. Not everyone, and clearly things aren't god enough, but I'm pretty sure things would get a hell of a lot worse if those of us still trying to hold things together just gave up.

@Stompythedinosaur

Not a terribly helpful response. Surely you can agree it’s falling apart at the seams despite staffs good will? Which is running out by the hour.

@lacey79

I think more locums would work out of hours for a fee to be honest. It would free up appointments in my opinion.

Helpful to whom? I'm as entitled to share my view and experience as anyone else.

Saying the NHS has failed is very insulting to the many staff who are actually holding it together.

You aren't the arbiter of what people are allowed to post.

I agree posts don’t need to be ‘helpful’, we’re ultimately just sharing our thoughts. I also agree this is in no way a reflection on NHS staff but the emergency medicine system has collapsed in my opinion.

This

@Goosefatroasts

If the income generated just goes towards paying for locums, how is that going to help? Being seen at the GP often requires a referral to a specialist or further investigations. All these services are also under pressure.

I think payments - if they work - would free up those attending emergency services for antibiotics and the like, and has the potential to stop some conditions from becoming more serious and requiring inpatient interventions. But in the grand scheme of what is failing, I'm not sure it'll make a dent.

What is needed, IMO, is to reopen the closed-down emergency departments. We currently cover 3 areas that since had their own a&es. Reopen community and cottage hospitals that allowed patients requiring less treatment to be transferred there. streamline services more, at the minute community nurses for example cant access hospital systems and vice versa, it makes the transfer of care between departments a nightmare, as they just can't communicate. I was with community nurses recently, and each visit costs the NHS £65 at least, in one day we turned up at 3 patients' houses and they were in the hospital, but the community teams online system doesn't notify them, all that time and money wasted that could have been saved if their system synced with the hospital one, streamline social care into the NHS so it's easier for patients to get support. More hospitals at home/virtual wards, where we check in on patients daily and give them treatments, but without them needing a bed.

Al this requires staffing though, we need to make coming to the UK for nurses from abroad and training our own more attractive. I agree what the unions are asking is a bit OTT, but make training free again, pay students for their training, make the starting wage more attractive (£30k as opposed to £27k, its not a massive hike but and realistic). We need to make the role of the carer more attractive, properly monitored, decent pay and training. Avoid burnout, when i worked in care homes 60 weeks were the norm, not the exception.

Its a mammoth seemingly impossible task, but if all these things dont happen, the NHS will only get worse till it does collapse entirely.

It could pay for itself by reducing demand. Every gp apt costs about £70 so a tenner contribution isn't that much. But if 10% of people decided not to attend, that would make a huge saving

@lacey79

Lots of good points but certainly in the winter a lot of appointments are for flu symptoms/infections etc that possibly require antibiotics etc. I couldn’t get a GP appointment at all pre Christmas and then I ended up with pneumonia. I didn’t attend A and E or out of hours as OOH were prioritising under 5s only. On the 6th day I got lucky and got an appointment. Was very ill by this point though and definitely considering A and E.

We are a nation of hypochondriacs to be honest. I was in a shop this afternoon and overheard a man in front of me complaining about waiting 4 days for an ‘emergency appointment’ for his ‘bad leg’. Yet he was strolling around the shop without a limp or any outward sign of pain at all.

Absolutely. I also had pneumonia back in November, one particularly bad night i was in bed at 4 am struggling to breathe, i pulled all my chest muscles so couldn't cough without agonising pain to try and clear it, but i wouldn't have been since in the walk in and a&e was the wrong place, it also took me days to get a gp apt that i would have absolutely paid for ha that been an option. Something needs to give, maybe payments from primary care is the first option, but its just one very small pat in a massive list of failures that need fixing.

I love our NHS, i will never leave my NHS role as i enjoy seeing all different patients from all walks of life and backgrounds and being to help all of them equally to the best of my ability. However, it is at the point of breaking and failing the public who need it most.

People can have very severe circulation issues in their leg that will end up with an amputation yet still walk perfectly normally.... my FiL would be a classic example of this.

My DD could show you many patients who come in walking and come out minus a leg when the op to fix doesn't work.

Its a huge problem but its often caused by life style, not least smoking and diet.

I think we are actually a nation of know it all's, people comment about matters they haven't a clue about.

Heard it today "well, its only one person, why do they need 4 ambulances?" (this was during an incident to recover someone from water, involving multiple agencies) never occurred to this man that there may be more than one victim, that the rescuers may need help too, that an ambulance could breakdown......

It wasn’t that though, I had to listen for a few minutes to him saying he’d developed a ‘severe leg pain’ and that he wanted ‘an emergency appointment’ but was ‘being forced to wait 4 days’. He was walking around without any pain or difficulty. So either the pain was nowhere near as bad as he said, or it was coming and going enough for him to walk around the shops in which case I think 4 days is completely appropriate. For most people with leg pain, they wouldnt ask for an emergency appointment (or an appointment at all) until they’d rested it for a few days to make sure it wasn’t a sprain. Not him!

As for the circulation issue most times it diabetic neuropathy. I’m type 1, neuropathy means you lose sensation in your leg so it wouldn’t cause pain anyhow.

You can't really base a medical diagnosis on an overheard conversation in shop... you may be right... i don't know but maybe what he didn't mention was he'd had recurring pain for many months, had a cold foot, was getting sores... you have no idea.

I just think to say we are nation of hypochondriacs because of one guy in shop is bit extreme.

There’s definitely a group of people who like to attend the GP for incredibly small and minor issues. My father is one of them and also my sister in law. It is genuinely like a hobby for them both. The GPs must think oh fuckinghell here they are again.

You can't keep old, end of life, buildings forever. At some point they need total refurb, and that's very expensive, often more expensive than building new.

@Kazzyhoward I will defer to your knowledge on that. The problem is they closed them and there is no intention or funds to build new. So old building demolished, land sold off for housing and where does that money go ? it doesn't go towards a new facility to continue the provision of intermeidiate beds, so the end result is less beds for that purpose. I do appreciate that LA's have had a terrible time of it in recent years and have had to make really tough decisions when it comes to cutting services due to their own budgets being cut massively.

In my FiL case its some sort of vascular disease, misdiagnosed ..... he stopped complaining about it because he felt he was a "time waster" only when DD saw the sores that she got him in for a scan (via a different GP) his leg was turning black but to to see him walking, you'd never know....

He could have very extreme leg pain....

3 op's later, long stays in hospital and doubtless a small fortune, he is on the mend ... with both legs :)

I must be mistaken as my ex had this done at GP 7 years ago, has it changed?

I know it is no longer offered by GP's in our area, it was 7 years ago, even to housebound patients, it now costs £84 privately.

I’m not originally from the U.K.
I thought the NHS was bad many years ago when I came . I work for it . I work in ED at the moment.

im of the opinion the main problem is how the population worships it . It’s really hard to admit faults on something you love so much, its like an abusive relationship. You know its not good for you but it’s hard to leave .

I see the nhs it as provider for health and at the moments it’s not providing anything good .

just the fact that you got to wait months for a scan or any sort of diagnostic investigation is dreadful .I have a 30 year old friend with heart failure who has been waiting months and months for an operation ..she is only 30 !

if I needed a scan , I’d happily pay for it to have it done in days rather than months . I’m sure I’m not the only one willing to do so .

where I am from is mixed . If you have the money , you pay , have all the investigations done quickly . If not , you join the national health system queue, which is shorter than here because not everyone is on it! There is lots of demand for private so costs are lower, like a mammogram would be 50£ ..nothing outrageous. Used to see a gynaecologist consultant for 100£ in 2/3 days if needed ..
yes it’s not fair having to pay , but neither is dying waiting for months untreated .

also , if you have to pay for your health , maybe it makes you value it a bit more ..maybe people will be drinking a bit less if they need to pay bills for sorting their liver/ falls that comes from it . Maybe they’ll lose weight too..

I don’t like the USA system but there are lots of alternatives in Europe ..just next door .

a&e is a disgrace at the moment . I can’t even look the patients in the eyes I’m so ashamed of everything. I can’t even face going to work anymore . We had them on the corridor again this week .

And yes , I am thinking of going back just to have access to medical care . So it’s pretty bad.