To think the NHS has already failed.

[Goingforplatinum]

5 hour wait for a cat1 ambulance for a child. Unresponsive patients being taken to hospital by neighbours. 90 hour wait in A&E, unsafe staffing on wards, 7 month wait for coil or implant fitting. The NHS isn't failing. We need to admit its failed

That NHS England website info was from August last year. Not sure how it is all panning out ? Are we supposed to believe it could be worse than this ?

The Tories include private medical insurance, private schools fees and student loans as money the UK spends on health and education. .....

So i feel certain a VR bed at home (basically remote monitoring of a patient) WILL be part of these 7000 new beds.

I listened to Marie Caulfield today.. when it suited her argument, the 13000 patients stuck in hospital were fluid and not the same people, when it didn't, she changed them to be the same 13000 folk..... very clever.

So i feel certain a VR bed at home (basically remote monitoring of a patient) WILL be part of these 7000 new beds.

Does that mean someone will be given a BP machine and sats probe and asked to check their own obs at home ? Or are we talking about other technology which is more complex and can be accessed 24 hrs by health professionals ? How widespread is this currently ? who is monitoring and reacting to the information provided by this technology ?

Theres a box given to patients with these items in, they are then educated how to use them or a family member is. These items sync to a programme that the HCP can view remotely. They speak via video call and do home visits where ness or if they need bloods. They actually do work really well for certain demographics of patients. Hospitals can be the worst place, for sleeping for example which is vital for recovery. Being monitored, having regular contact, 24 hour access to people, but in the comfort of your own home with decent sleep and meals, can increase recovery time massively

@lacey79 I find it very sad you are suggesting that it’s standard for the NHS to take several years to route a patient via mental health services for a very real physical condition. It’s also sad you assume that the NHS saw me right in the end. Once the one GP suggested I had mental health issues, there was literally no way for me to be taken seriously to get the referral I actually needed.

Im no longer using the NHS and Drs reading the NHS discharge notes are appalled that I wasn’t diagnosed that day/night, given my symptoms and what was observed by a DR in A&E.

This is a good example of how the NHS has been failing for a long time - not staffed adequately in the moment to make sure patients are seen by the right specialists; no follow through between the hospital and GPs to connect the dots to make up for these shortcomings; and no way for me, a patient, to make persistent (yet valid) enquiries about my health without being fobbed off as having “health anxiety”.

I haven’t read the whole thread as quite honestly, I find the nhs bashing so upsetting.

It isn’t entirely failing. There is still so much work going on. You have cancer, you get thousands of pounds worth of treatment for free. You may not get it as quick as you’d you’d like as demand outstrips capacity but you still get it. You are in danger of waiting longer for it because we do not have the nurses to give it. Hence the strike. But that’s another story.

It is so demoralising every day to read about the nhs failures when do many of us are working so hard and are close to burn out.

I didnt suggest your GP experience was right, i said your experience of leaving hospital without a follow up and that being down to a GP to arrange is protocol. Of the GP directed you incorrectly that is on them, and they shouldnt be allowed to dismiss you, or incorrectly refer, and you as a patient have the right to request a different GP or a referral you feel is appropriate. I just commented on the part about leaving the hospital without a follow up. That is standard.

@QueenCremant Please try to separate yourself as an extremely hard working individual from the “system” that is letting everyone, including staff, down. In my case my criticism is not of the individuals who were doing the observations at all hours, holding my hair back as I was being violently ill, making sure I didn’t choke to death.

It was the person who wasn’t there that could have made the difference. (And I don’t mean this in the sense medical staff need to be robots that work 24/7. I mean adequate staffing to ensure cover)

I mean, I guess an individual somewhere must have dropped the ball at some point as apparently there simply wasn’t the right specialist available for the 24 hours I was there. I know everyone is human but there was NOTHING in place to catch the error. That is what is failing.

@lacey79 Look, I don’t know how to say this without being seen as disrespectful, but I did speak to more than one GP and got absolutely nowhere. I’m not medical and don’t have the vocabulary to use the magic combination of words that would have gotten me referred to a specialist against the opinion of two GPs.

I do think that someone at the hospital making a recommendation to my GP that I be seen by the specialist they couldn’t provide and do the imaging they suspected was necessary but couldn’t do at the time would have cut out a lot of the hassle in the long run. That makes no sense to me how that can happen and I do feel very let down, particularly now in hindsight.

So in my opinion, when a person is genuinely sick and they access a health provider at various points to try to get the help they need and that help is just not forthcoming, irrespective of the reason, it does in fact mean that the system is not working.

Theres a box given to patients with these items in, they are then educated how to use them or a family member is. These items sync to a programme that the HCP can view remotely. They speak via video call and do home visits where ness or if they need bloods. They actually do work really well for certain demographics of patients. Hospitals can be the worst place, for sleeping for example which is vital for recovery. Being monitored, having regular contact, 24 hour access to people, but in the comfort of your own home with decent sleep and meals, can increase recovery time massively

That is really interesting @lacey79 Can you give any examples of where this is working well currently ? I can see it working well with some people with long term conditions. Just as some diabetics are given the new body worn monitoring devices which sync with their phones, although I am not sure how often the data is reviewed by their team ?
Does the team providing the service you mention offer 24/7, 365 access to a HCP and is that for advice or can they also prescribe ?

Virtual wards

this is a paper from the British geriatric society on the use of virtual wards with older people

That is a really interesting read @Theeyeballsinthesky thank you.

The sticking point that the frailty wards might face is Virtual Wards do not provide social care for patients who require support to return to their normal place of residence so there is going to need to be either social care provision or another team who can bridge that gap.

The demographic who are currently struggling to leave hospital would probably fail to meet the Virtual wards admission criteria ?
I agree that they sound good for your independent cohorts with chronic illness though.

I see the Govt, in order to tackle failures to discharge patients are going to give hospitals £250m to help clear this, care home beds, hotels BUT the £250m will come from EXISTING budgets.

So robbing Peter to pay Paul... this really does show that the Tories are not interested in helping or solving NHS issues but to eventually remove it.

From what my DD tells me is that the patients who are medically fit but stuck in hospital are folk who can't get up stairs, prepare food or txfer from their bed.... they need physical help.

The longer they remain in hospital the more deconditioned they become too.

I would like to see MPs have their pay rises since the pandemic recategorised as a lump sum, with a return to 2020 salary levels thereafter. Seems fair to me. Especially since their salaries rose £20, 000 since 2010.

I have a libre worn on the back of the arm. The info gets reviewed once a year or so when I go for appointments but if I have any concerns before then I can book in with diabetes nurse. That’s plenty as far as I’m concerned, and the libre is completely life changing so I’m very grateful. It’s definitely keeping appointment numbers down from what I’ve read in my online diabetes groups.

I think the issue is that there isn't one magic fix for all.
We need people to prevent unnecessary admissions, be that intensive acute medical input or a mix of less intensive medical input and social care.
We need people to help people who have been admitted get home and get back on their feet if they have rehab potential.
We need alternatives if the above isn't possible.
We need falls teams, to help those without fractures get up off the floor and assess the reasons for the fall/provide equipment/advice.
We need to use technology where it is appropriate, but we still need lots of people working outside of the acute setting to allow the acute setting to function as it should.
What might be useful is a triage service that takes all the calls for the above services to cut down on referrals going to the wrong service ?

@Cuppasoupmonster everyone I know with a Libre says it is a gamechanger for their diabetes management

It isn’t entirely failing. There is still so much work going on. You have cancer, you get thousands of pounds worth of treatment for free. You may not get it as quick as you’d you’d like as demand outstrips capacity but you still get it

I live in Australia where there is a hybrid public/private system including a public hospital that is free at the point of use, with all the services the NHS offers. I grew up with, and worked in another hospital system that also has a free public health system.

Ive seen multiple posters on here grateful that the NHS provides basic health care to them, whereas that should be what a health service does, surely? Posters on here will say, “I can’t fault the NHS, when I presented with <various symptoms> I had investigations and then a diagnosis”. Or, when I was in labour and there was fetal distress I had an obstetric intervention and my baby was fine!”

Believe it or not, the NHS is not unique in offering “free” health care but it does seem unique in that its users seem pathetically grateful to be receiving any health care at all.

Believe it or not, the NHS is not unique in offering “free” health care but it does seem unique in that its users seem pathetically grateful to be receiving any health care at all.

Bit harsh ! I am intrigued why you care so much about a health system in another country to insult its users ? You have one that you claim is far superior, so what's your beef ?

At some point the British public will have to decide whether it prefers an nhs that offers all the things free it does currently, or more long-term Tory governments. Covid was bad but didn’t do this on its own. There are so Jenny peripheral things to sort out that would ease the burden, but they haven’t been.

*so many peripheral things

@BirmaBrite The NHS conversation should include comparisons to other countries which are culturally close to us and which have come up with different solutions to the same problem.

I'm in the UK and frustrated with the NHS. I also lived in Australia for some years and I love it here but I had a much better experience with Australian healthcare, why can't we make the comparison?

I agree with @yubgummy. Britain is bottom of the league tables on so many aspects of health care. Why should we not learn from peer countries who do things better?

Does anyone suppose we have less than half the hospital beds (per 1000 population) of other First World countries, according to the OECD, because we are so healthy?

It’s not failed.

The care system has failed, and the ageing population increased the pressure on both. This was entirely foreseeable and deliberately ruined by the fuckers in charge.

If we keep saying things like “the NHS is awful”, it will promptly be replaced by something much worse AND much more expensive.

Let’s hold the bastards to account in the next elections, shall we?