To think the NHS has already failed.

[Goingforplatinum]

5 hour wait for a cat1 ambulance for a child. Unresponsive patients being taken to hospital by neighbours. 90 hour wait in A&E, unsafe staffing on wards, 7 month wait for coil or implant fitting. The NHS isn't failing. We need to admit its failed

@KnittedCardi According to the OECD, the average OECD member country has 5 hospital beds per 1000 of population. France with its highly lauded health system has 5.7. The UK with its health system now finally admitted by the PM to have major problems has 2.4. Our rather poor health outcomes speak for themselves. Are you suggesting we know something that other OECD countries choose to ignore?

We agree bed blockers by definition don’t belong in hospital, although they mostly started there because they were admitted for good reason.

What about the vaccine mandate, @JenniferBooth ? George Monbiot is a big vaccine supporter

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64216269

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/14/a-ticking-time-bomb-healthcare-under-threat-across-western-europe

So it's not just here then?

As Sweden tend to be trotted out as the gold standard it is Interesting to see that we spend roughly the same as Sweden as a % of GDP.

www.visibacare.com/en-gb/articles/is-healthcare-in-the-uk-and-sweden-different

Main difference seems to be that Sweden have used the private sector for online consultations. Which doesn't quite fit the private bad narrative noting that when costs were massively increasing, the Swedes took the initiative and are starting to push for modernisation of their own services not just the British tactic of screaming about the nasty Tories or blindly throwing even more money at the problem without any plans to adapt.

If anyone can actually show something about the nasty Tory NHS privatisation agenda please publish it. fullfact.org/election-2019/nhs-private-spending/

You can be a vaccine supporter and still see that the vaccine mandate for care workers was insanity in a profession that was already short staffed.

I thought you were asking about GM’s views, @JenniferBooth I didn’t see anything of his concerning the vaccine mandate

you should read your own link....

Germany 35k vacancies.. the UK 285k.
France has less Dr's than in 2012 but still double what we have.
Spain 700k waiting for operations... UK 7.2m... we had 4m pre covid...

Its just not comparable.

I agree we are all facing a healthcare crisis but the UK's is off the scale.

Sweden is no longer the Gold Standard, right wing Govts have seen to that.... when i lived there 20 years ago, it certain did have a very good HS.

I did read it but thank you for the attempt to belittle. Haven't got the time to prepare a full presentation on the articles.

All I was doing was pointing out that the countries that we are being compared to frequently on this thread aren't exactly doing brilliantly themselves. Nothing more.

@FlameGrilledSquirrel I didn't mean or intend to belittle you.

But even a cursory read through shows that the issues European health services are facing are tiny compared to what the UK faces.

If we are to get out of this mess, then trying to score political points to make out this is a european wide problem and not on the Tories (and to some extent Labour Governments too) will not help.

I despair when i listened to PMQs today.... Lab need to come out and pledge a min 10% pay rise for all NHS health workers and 5% for all other staff.... put the "How to afford" back to the tories as "Whats the alternative"

We have no choice.

Interesting listening to R4 tonight on PM who were covering that claim that other comparable European countries are seeing identical levels of chaos. They seemed to focus mainly on France who have similar issues with this Flu outbreak, but also have issues peculiar to France. Not sure if they covered Germany as was searching for an address in the dark and not having the radio on helps !

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/08/sick-man-of-europe-why-the-crisis-ridden-nhs-is-falling-apart

A very recent comparison & on funding.