To think the NHS has already failed.

[Goingforplatinum]

5 hour wait for a cat1 ambulance for a child. Unresponsive patients being taken to hospital by neighbours. 90 hour wait in A&E, unsafe staffing on wards, 7 month wait for coil or implant fitting. The NHS isn't failing. We need to admit its failed

The NHS failed when people had to do some pretty drastic things in order to protect it, rather than the other way round.

ifs.org.uk/news/nhs-2022-more-funding-more-staff-treating-fewer-patients-covid-impacts-linger

Some stats for interest. So many NHS related posts atm, of course, it's in crises, but the strain still seems to be coming from Covid in particular, and delayed discharges in general.

The initial big mistake, right at the very beginning, was to run the NHS and Social Care separately with two distinct budgets, two departments, two entirely different entities running the disparate systems. If anything were to change, this single change would make a huge difference.

Some parts yes. Emergency care for example. It’s very dangerous right now to need emergency care.

Other parts are working okay. My friend had a breast lump and was still seen within 2 weeks. I guess the first challenge for her would have been getting a GP appointment in the first place.

That's a bit unfair and not quite true. A massive increase in demand is going to cause problems for most healthcare systems. And protecting the NHS was really about protecting the people who needed to use it as well.

A large part the problem now is the lack of social care - to the point that the Welsh Government has told health boards here they can discharge without a care plan. How many of those discharged in those circumstances will end up back in hospital? The NHS cannot function with out a functioning social care system.

I imagine if I'm taken ill suddenly at home I'll stand a good chance of dying.

I blame this government for that. The NHS has been failed. It hasn't failed by itself.

Boris Johnson was going to fix social care as I recall. That didn't happen did it?

This, absolutely. Health & social care shouldn't be separate.

I've suspected the destruction of social care is deliberate by this government though. Destroying the NHS indirectly, and with some level of deniability as it's down to (underfunded) LA's.

It amazes me when I think of the absolute guff we all swallowed from Boris during COVID. All this shit about the Nightingale hospitals, it was all for show so why didn’t anyone in the NHS call him out on it at the time, say it was a huge waste of money and absolutely pointless. We are left with the hangover of those huge huge mistakes.

This shower of shit Tory government has failed. Failed to fund it properly and failed to give decent pay and conditions.

I agree op. It can not be considered a functioning system by any measure.

@EilonwyWithRedGoldHair totally agree. Current government policy to run it into the ground and then say we have no choice to go with an insurance based private system.

No I don’t think so but social care needs help to get people discharged

I might be a lone voice, but I rang for a GP appointment for my DD at 10.15 am on Thursday and we were seen by the out of hours dr at 7.45 that evening. Rang to make a blood test appointment following on from that and were seen that day (yesterday). So far, so incredibly good.

The delayed discharges isn’t always because of lack of social care though. Often it’s because of inefficient processes in the system and poor communication. When you have people fit enough to go home to their own houses and families and they are kept hanging around for 6-7 hours waiting for someone to sort their discharge out or their medication or get them booked in for an out patient visit in a few days, it all falls apart. There’s a bed there that’s being taken up that should be available for someone who actually needs it.

I’ve seen it happen so often. Even when I had my children it happened. DS2 was supposed to be one of those 2 or 3 hour discharges (what’re the minimum is). 6 hours I was waiting, perfectly fit and healthy. Baby seemed fine too but hasn’t had his final “sign off”. Therr simply was no-one to discharge us and I was terrified to just walk out in case it flagged us as neglectful parents for “not complying with standard medical checks” etc. So there was another statistic probably “our labour ward is full, we will need to send people to another hospital or keep them at home labouring as long as possible”. But a bed was there!

It is dire atm and I work in it. I waited 2 hours for an ambulance for a heart attack yesterday for my patient. I myself can't even get through to the GP despite trying every open day since the 10th of Dec. Speech and language therapy waits are 6 months+ and no doubt I'll have to wait 2 hours for when the patient eventually bloody chokes.

I don't know why we have to keep having these emotive posts over and over again that are always phrased as the NHS is failing us - that's makes it really personal to all of us NHS workers who are doing our absolute best and actually are providing a non failing service every day - but the public don't always see it (mainly because it's all about GP appointments and ambulances)

Why can't you say the government is failing the NHS and the public?

Also we have got a system where most people work FT just to get by, so there is no-one available in families to care for an elderly relative temporarily while they convalesce. This would have happened years ago in lots of families. Just someone to make sure they had decent meals provided for them, got help getting to the toilet or showering etc, someone to take them their medication at the appropriate times. Who has even got spare rooms in their house to care for an elderly relative even if they ARE at home to care for them during the day, anyway? We are building smaller and smaller houses and adult offspring are having to stay longer and longer in the family home, there is simply nowhere to put grandad to let him recover with family for a few weeks.

sad state of affairs we have got ourselves into, in so many ways.

You don't actually have to wait though. Discharge papers can follow on. I have self discharged from maternity with baby, we have discharged DD when it was a Saturday, she'd had all tests, been seen by consultant was just waiting for papers from the one doctor on call. DM used to discharge herself regularly, she just called a taxi and went home. I know it is not ideal, and if you are really elderly or without support, that is impossible, but in some cases, you can just go home.

I also work in it but I don't see it as a personal slight at all. The government are failing us significantly. I don't blame my GP for not being able to contact them, I don't blame the paramedics for taking 2 hours etc. But I blame the government for doing a big fat fuck all to help us.

Im a HCP and was unwell a couple of days ago I somewhat reluctantly contacted my GP he rang me back within an hour and saw me 30 mins later. Ignoring my "I'm fine really" he called an ambulance which came within 40 mins (they gave me a bed in the surgery to lie on, repeatedly checked up on me) and I was taken to hospital. OK I sat around and waited a bit but the care I received from all was fantastic every member of staff who saw me was so concerned and spent time with me despite being very busy. The consultant looking after me saw me at 11 pm and was back in again at 7 am. I am proud to work for the NHS even more so now when the chips are down you cant beat it. Yes its broken but get rid of the NHS and changing to another system is not the solution enable us the NHS and us to do the job we want to do then it will be world class.

No, the individual staff in the NHS are doing the best with what they have. You can criticise NHS processes but often that isn’t the individual staff’s fault and the public understands this I think. Poor processes anywhere are often a result of poor resourcing. Re the point I just made, If you don’t have the funding or the workforce planning to provide eg more discharge staff or pharmacy staff etc then that’s going to inevitably mean that discharges aren’t going to happen fast enough, and you’ll get a backlog of healthy patients bedblocking. It doesn’t mean that the staff are to blame. Ultimately it’s the government’s fault for under resourcing for the last 15 years.

It's not failed. It's being failed by the tory government.

Do you mean you just want more funding when you say this?

Who pays more in your opinion

No-one tells you you have that option though. And I’m not actually sure it’s a good idea nowadays when things are rushed through anyway. My dad has been in poor health for a number of years and ended up in A and E recently after collapsing. A doctor looked at his notes and said “oh yes I see you have heart failure.” This was news to my dad, we were all astounded. Apparently it had been picked up after a stroke 7 years prior but no-one had ever informed him or ensured he was sent a cardiology appointment for follow up. He hadn’t been on any medication for it all that time. No wonder he had been feeling rough all those years.

so things do get missed now even when patients ARE discharged by medical staff. It is worrying. I’m sure it is just down to inadequate staffing levels and just “fire fighting” on a day to day basis.

Sorry to say this but I think the time has come for everyone who CAN to pay a little towards their doctor appt and their hospital visit.

Just look at all the threads on Mumsnet about buying handbags and holidays! Don’t tell me there are people out there who can’t pay £10 towards seeing a GP or £20 towards a hospital visit. Why should people who earn £250,000 a year be able to access NHS care free?

We have to get our priorities straight! And it would certainly encourage people to turn up for their appointments and not to smash up A & E!

It doesn’t have to be like USA. Many European countries have a state subsidised and controlled obligatory insurance system which are NON PROFIT.
But the government has to be trusted not to be tempted to indulge in profiteering and I worry there are enough people at the top atm to set this up who have the correct integrity and authority.

I heard someone on the radio today suggesting a brilliant idea to retain staff too. (Obviously, pay staff more. Sort out social care.) But on top of that, why not when doctors and nurses are training, save their student fees, and give it back to them in a lump sum at the end of 10 years if they have stayed working in the NHS for that time?

We were with a relative in a European country during the summer who pays €28 to see the gp and gets 60% of that back through insurance. They can usually see a gp the same or next day after they call. The care they received was excellent.