Are you patriotic ?

[janet0001]

Do you feel patriotic ?

I do feel patriotic and I got laughed at and basically mocked when I said it.

I was quite upset about that - AIBU?

I accidentally posted before I added I'm ashamed to be English/British now, when I go abroad I lie.

Where do you live? Sounds worse than here

@MarshaBradyo Southeast. All the beaches here are covered in raw sewage and they warn you not to go in. I thought the whole country's beaches were but maybe I'm wrong.

Why do you lie when you go abroad

Ive never experienced this being laughed at, many in the EU are baffled we have left the EU but other than they they really don’t give it much thought

no one really cares that much we are not on the world stage like the US or Russia or even China we are just a small country that’s culturally had a huge impact but far less significant than we were

the only other nation Ive experienced where so many hold such shame is Germany due to what is recent history. It’s a peculiar British mainly middle class shame tied in with obsessiveness that other nations give us so much thought

Not sure but I agree with HRT it’s really odd to lie when you go abroad. People aren’t that invested!

Where do you say you are from instead?

There are plenty of beautiful safe beaches in England. Latterly my late husband and I had several good holidays here, not long before the pandemic. Are you saying beache have become contaminated since then? I suppose that is possible, much was let slide during lockdowns but that would be the same in any country and will surely change. Friends of mine went to Scotland for ten days last year and the beaches were fine where they were.

However we surely aren't just talking about the seaside. I am on the outskirts of London and it is very nice here.

As for whoever said they feel ashamed to be British and don't mention it when abroad, that sounds quite extreme. I know plenty who go abroad for fun and work and they are certainly not ashamed of being British, they also have friends from overseas who stay with them from time to time because they enjoy being in England on holiday.

It's easy to highlight negatives and there's nothing new about that (I remember adults doing that when I was a child back in the dark ages), but things go up and down everywhere and overall it isn't bad at all here.

Patriotism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race.

There are plenty of beautiful safe beaches in England. Latterly my late husband and I had several good holidays here, not long before the pandemic. Are you saying beache have become contaminated since then?

Yes. There's been an enormous amount of media coverage on the issue. The level and duration of sewage discharges into coastal and river waters has skyrocketed.

Sky News link from the summer

I'm not someone who'd wave a flag or feel emotional when the national anthem is played. I feel embarrassed by big displays of patriotism in this country. There's some kind of sense of superiority involved which I really dislike.
There's a lot about this country I don't like, and there are certain groups of people in this country that make me feel embarrassed to be British.
However, despite all the above, I do love the UK. I do acknowledge the great things about this country - for example how many things were invented here, the wealth of writers, artists etc from here. The creativity, tolerance, humour, countryside. I've lived abroad and suffered great homesickness which made me realise how much I love my country.
I don't really understand this thing about being proud to be British though. I haven't done anything, I just happened to be born here. Although I can think of many great Brits throughout history, their achievements are theirs. Why should I feel proud about others' achievements?

I don’t lie MarshaBradyo if I’m asked

Oh no I meant the poster you were replying to. I agree it’s strange and where do they say instead anyway

Oh I see MarshaBradyo

yes it is strange. I can always tell brits abroad as my family/friends can always tell the country they are from fellow nationals when abroad

@LBFseBrom Yes, it's since the pandemic. Brexit coming into force in January 2020 resulted in a shortage of chemicals for the treatment of sewage and without anywhere to store the sewage, the companies started to discharge it untreated into rivers and the sea. It does seem to be more of an issue on the southern beaches I guess because the population is higher: www.sas.org.uk/map/

@Nagado

I think the UK has the best actors, comedians, writers, musicians & singers, designers, artists, engineers, scientists and sports people in the world.

Er... do you not think that other countries all think exactly the same about their actors, comedians, writers etc?

That's purely conditioning and cultural. You prefer these things because you grew up with them but there's no way to objectively measure this is true and in fact most people from other countries would probably disagree with you.

I more or less guarantee that if you asked that question of an American, a Japanese person, a French person, and Ethiopian and a Brazilian they would all say the same about their culture.

Am I proud of our sporting achievements, inventions, the NHS, the old Queen, Liberal attitudes to gays and women’s rights etc? Yes.
do I hang a flag out of my bedroom window during the World Cup or wear Union flag apparel? No

Would I want to live anywhere else? No.

Am I patriotic? I think so. But I’m also informed, I don’t just blindly believe I live in the best country in the world. Unlike some.

there’s a difference between being patriotic and indoctrination.

@Thepeopleversuswork

Er... do you not think that other countries all think exactly the same about their actors, comedians, writers etc? Er... well yes, obviously they do. What’s your point? Do you think you can only love something about your country if you can objectively prove that it’s better than every other country in the world? That’s a peculiarly negative way to look at life. Britain has produced some spectacular talent. It’s something to celebrate and enjoy.

Part of the definition of patriotism is having a devotion to your country. And part of the reason I have a devotion to my country is because I prefer it to any other country. There’s no way to objectively measure whether we have the best idiosyncrasies or the best seasons or the best humour in the world either. I think we do because that’s my preference. I wouldn’t expect an American, Japanese, French, Ethiopian or Brazilian person to agree with me because they’d feel the same about their own countries. Why would they feel patriotic about the UK?

Patriotism is not about thinking your country is better than others. It's about loving your country and feeling loyalty towards it. Its not a competition with other countries.
You can be patriotic and be critical of certain things at the same time.

@Nagado

What’s your point? Do you think you can only love something about your country if you can objectively prove that it’s better than every other country in the world? That’s a peculiarly negative way to look at life. Britain has produced some spectacular talent. It’s something to celebrate and enjoy.

No but I just think its very odd to say "we have the best x in the world because I grew up with x and it's all I know so therefore my country must be best". When by definition you can't possibly know if you have the best x in the world because you don't know enough about other people's xs to know.

It's more or less a celebration of ignorance. This is one of the things I dislike about patriotism.

Strangely enough im more "patriotic" of being from Yorkshire, than from England! I live abroad and actively don't shout about where I'm from. Im even about to start getting nationality of the country I now live in. The UK will always hold a soft spot for me but that's only because of the memories of my childhood. Nothing more.

I just think its very odd to say "we have the best x in the world because I grew up with x and it's all I know so therefore my country must be best". When by definition you can't possibly know if you have the best x in the world because you don't know enough about other people's xs to know. I completely agree. It’s very odd. But I’m still not sure what your point is as I didn’t actually say that, or anything like it. I think it’s even odder that you’ve extracted a single sentence from my post and have added your own bizarre little interpretation to it, but I’ve got a lovely toad in the hole due out of the oven in the next ten minutes so I’ll be eating that rather than continuing to argue with you over a non issue.

Just to ensure you don’t need any further clarification, I didn’t say we do have the best xyz in the world. I said ‘I think’ we have the best xyz in the world. It’s not a fact, it’s a subjective opinion. Feel free to disagree. Also, you know buggery fuck about my knowledge of other countries or on what basis I’ve formed my subjective opinion.

Also, I don’t think Britain is the best country in the world. Far from it. Brexit is a shit show, the NHS is burning down around our ears and our government is absolutely incompetent. But I look at other countries and we’re far from the worst. I think there’s plenty about our nation to love and, as I said above, part of the definition of patriotism is having a devotion to your country. If you genuinely can’t think of a single good thing about England, Scotland, Wales or NI, then that’s your lookout.

It's more or less a celebration of ignorance. This is one of the things I dislike about patriotism. What I dislike is this ridiculous attitude that we live in the most dreadful place on earth simply because some of the things in this country are crap. Talk to LGBT people in Uganda, Sikhs In Afghanistan, women & girls in dozens of other countries, and then tell me that Britain is shit and there’s nothing to love about it. We’re bloody lucky to be here.

I'm proud of my country - Scotland. I've no feelings about 'Britain'.

The NHS makes me feel patriotic.

It's the best thing we've ever done.

For the UK, not really.

For Scotland, yes absolutely.

Oh no I've NEVER heard that argument before LOL

I would love to leave. Genuinely. But like so many folks who are trying their absolute best, I can't afford to, and like it or not, my family is here.

If I had the money I would move us all out of this shithole.

No. I am ashamed of being British. I don't think there's much to be proud of.