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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are you patriotic ?

184 replies

janet0001 · 05/01/2023 23:05

Do you feel patriotic ?

I do feel patriotic and I got laughed at and basically mocked when I said it.

I was quite upset about that - AIBU?

OP posts:
WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 06/01/2023 10:05

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 06/01/2023 09:58

Agree with you. I say London or Britain. Never England. I don’t feel English as opposed to British at all, but I do feel like a Londoner.

Wow. Hmm

Stickmansmum · 06/01/2023 10:06

Absolutely not. Patriotism/nationalism and religion are the source of all evil in the world.

OopsAnotherOne · 06/01/2023 10:06

Interesting question OP.

I'm not really patriotic in the typical sense of the word, I do like England and enjoy living here to the extent , but with the state of the economy and the cost of living crisis etc it is not really something I can feel "proud" to be a part of at the moment. I don't feel patriotic towards a country where many of us are struggling to keep afloat.

However, I feel patriotic in the way that I feel a strong sense of belonging in England. I was born and raised here and most days I walk along the same roads, visit the same towns and spend time on the same land my ancestors lived on for centuries. There are buildings both up North and down South where my great, great, great, great grandparents lived in which still stand and I felt a huge sense of pride when I visited those same buildings. To walk up the same garden path that over 200 years ago, my same relatives did. It's very special to me.

I have family trees from my mother's side and father's side, both families I can trace back to the 1500s. In Tudor England, relatives on my mother's side of the family were working, living and walking the streets of the town I still work in today. To be able to visit the same places they did makes me feel proud to live in this area. Not so much "patriotic", but I suppose I'm trying to do my bit keep the town a nice place to be to keep it for future generations as my ancestors did for me.

By giving both my parents 23andMe DNA tests for Christmas under the sneaky guise of "see where your ancestors are from!" I was able to get a more detailed view of my own ancestry, from both my mother's and father's lines.

My father's family came across from Scandinavia with the Vikings and settled here, staying ever since. My mother's side is almost 100% British, with a tiny percentage of North African (given the small percentage, it is likely to be a Roman soldier during the Roman occupation of Britain who had relations with one of her ancestors).

The point I'm trying to make is that my ancestors have been settled here for over 1000 years on my father's side and even more on my mother's side. Britain is home for me and everything about all of the ancestors I've traced has happened here in this country. I am proud to know so much about my ancestry and I believe that makes me patriotic in the sense that I feel pride in knowing where I come from, how they lived, what they did, where they went and knowing I can walk those same streets and fields. I feel a connection, more than patriotic. I think patriotism comes in many forms and is different and personal to every individual.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 06/01/2023 10:08

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 06/01/2023 10:05

Wow. Hmm

Can you elaborate?

Im part Welsh and part Scottish, and a big part from another European country, as well as part English, so I’m not sure why I’d feel strongly English.

OopsAnotherOne · 06/01/2023 10:10

I wrote that whole long post above and forgot to mention probably my most important point-

No, OP. I don't feel patriotic in the way a lot of people claim to. I don't feel proud or that I have achieved something simply from being born in a certain geographical location. Nor do I feel that England/Britain is any better than any other country, nor am I "better" just for being born here.

I simply feel pride that I walk the same land as my ancestors did. I don't think that is considered patriotism by most.

MarshaBradyo · 06/01/2023 10:11

Patriotic may be too strong a word as if people start saying you have a duty to do x or y I think hmm not really. A recent example was you have a duty to enjoy Jubilee (I did enjoy the street party but not due to duty) or duty to act a certain way for the public and I find that too onerous.

However certain elements such as writing, creativity, science, justice as pp mentioned, arts are dear to me here. I’m reading a great book atm which covers science in 20thC and the history is excellent and with great contributions. Of course also from other countries which are included.

Thepeopleversuswork · 06/01/2023 10:14

No, not at all.

Honestly (and I'll probably get flamed), I think its a bit stupid to be proud of having been born in one particularly country and not another. It's not anything you have any control over and its in no way a measure of a person's quality, ambition or intelligence. What's to be proud of?

I also think patriotism fuels the worst kinds of division and xenophobia.

Can't see any upsides to it really.

whereaw · 06/01/2023 10:20

Everyone should feel proud of their roots, their ancestors and the systems that have allowed them to exist at all.

I am so proud of the women who throughout history endured childbirth, child raising and often abominable conditions of poverty, invasions, war, extreme weather across history that allowed me to be here today.

To not be patriotic, in my opinion, spits in the faces of all the people who walked before us to try to make the world better for them and their children.

It is an innate feeling of so many lives and people before me that have led to the possibility of my existence.

It happens to be that my ancestors are mostly from the British Isles, though I wasn't born here myself, I live here now and love it dearly.

Pride doesn't mean blind acceptance of everything that ever went before. It's simply acknowledgement and gratitude. Pride is community and caring about those around us because we share something important. It's wanting to make the world better and believing that there are some systems that our ancestors put in place that do make the world better.

That is true across ALL peoples and places.

I cannot understand people who mock and sneer at a sense of pride.

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 06/01/2023 10:22

Stickmansmum · 06/01/2023 10:06

Absolutely not. Patriotism/nationalism and religion are the source of all evil in the world.

I assume you mean for EVERYONE then? Are you going to say that next time someone says they are fiercely proud of their ethnic roots when they are not British?

GPTec1 · 06/01/2023 10:22

The justice system is in total chaos.

Over crowded prisons, often with people should n't be there, little rehab, crimes unsolved and rapes? well we all know they don't even get investigated, let alone result in dangerous people going to prison.

Arts Culture sure but thats more of SE London thing isn't it?

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 06/01/2023 10:22

Sarahcoggles · 06/01/2023 09:14

I'm proud of the UK. Sure we're not perfect, and times are particularly tough at the moment, but we have a state funded health service, state financial benefits, we have laws protecting vulnerable minorities, we punish hate crime, we support diversity, we have a robust legal system, we have a largely uncorrupt police force, we have democracy, and we take human rights seriously. On a lighter note, we know how to queue! And despite the financial challenges face by many, we always raise loads of money for Children In Need, Red Nose Day etc.

I know people will come along and deny everything I've said, probably giving examples of our shit NHS and unfair benefits or whatever, but on the whole I think we've got nearer the "whole package" than many other countries.

Overall I think we are, in general (obviously there are plenty of exceptions), a nation of decent people.

100% this. ^ I am extremely proud of the UK, and especially England, and I am proud to be English with Norwegian blood. I am also a massive Royalist.

I don't see any issue with this, because every other nation on the planet is allowed to be proud of who they are. Anyone who says different, and calls people names for being proud to be English, is a narrow-minded, disingenuous hypocrite.

Yes I am PROUD to be ENGLISH! Wink

I also support the England team - particularly Harry McGuire, Harry Kane, Kieran Trippier, and Jack Grealish.

whereaw · 06/01/2023 10:25

I also believe that pride (which has roots in care for your community) is the source of all the good in the world that extends beyond the family unit.

Yes, it can have bad consequences too. But that is true of all things when taken to extremes

midgetastic · 06/01/2023 10:48

Bizzarre that someone says I should be patriotic because of the people who came before me

Given I have ancestors who were victims of the highland clearances, ancestors who were female and therefore considered subhuman by those in power , ancestors who were killed by pointless wars I think that to be patriotic could be considered a kick in the teeth for those people , don't your?

Pride is usually considered one of the 7 deadly sins

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/01/2023 11:00

ReadingGlasses · 05/01/2023 23:44

And "if I had to choose between betraying my friend or my country, I hope I would choose my friend" as someone else said

You've got this the wrong way round.

The accurate quotation is: “If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country.”

E M Forster had less reason than most to subscribe to patriotism, given the way the country treated homosexuals in the wake of the Wilde trials. His one book openly written about same-sex love, 'Maurice', wasn't able to be published until it appeared posthumously at the embarrassingly late date of 1970.

Most of his literary friends were also pacifists (many also atheist) and conscientious objectors to the war.

I don't personally think empty jingoism and flag-waving does anything much to bring this country together. Quite the opposite, as recent events show. Our law-makers are still coy, conservative (small 'c'), and allow legislation to be influenced by traditionalists and the diktats of Christianity (cf. voluntary euthanasia and hedging around 'civil partnerships' (they were marriage in all-but name). And Brexit. And later, the wholesale assault on women's rights to appease aggressive male rights activism.

I'd be prouder of our nation if it ditched those relics in Buckingham Palace and the house of Lords, and overhauled our obsolete constitution from top to bottom.

Like Forster, I hope I'd betray my country before a friend to whom I actually owed my loyalty, too.

whereaw · 06/01/2023 11:00

Pride in the 7 deadly sins is about equating yourself to God. I don't think people use pride in the same way today.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/01/2023 11:01

NB. - oh yes, and divorced the Church of England from the State.

NormalNans · 06/01/2023 11:03

whereaw · 06/01/2023 10:20

Everyone should feel proud of their roots, their ancestors and the systems that have allowed them to exist at all.

I am so proud of the women who throughout history endured childbirth, child raising and often abominable conditions of poverty, invasions, war, extreme weather across history that allowed me to be here today.

To not be patriotic, in my opinion, spits in the faces of all the people who walked before us to try to make the world better for them and their children.

It is an innate feeling of so many lives and people before me that have led to the possibility of my existence.

It happens to be that my ancestors are mostly from the British Isles, though I wasn't born here myself, I live here now and love it dearly.

Pride doesn't mean blind acceptance of everything that ever went before. It's simply acknowledgement and gratitude. Pride is community and caring about those around us because we share something important. It's wanting to make the world better and believing that there are some systems that our ancestors put in place that do make the world better.

That is true across ALL peoples and places.

I cannot understand people who mock and sneer at a sense of pride.

I don’t think any of this has to do with national pride and patriotism.

I recognise with gratitude those who went before me and that they are reflected in who I am now (both positive and negative). I’m grateful for people who have put themselves at risk to allow us to live the lives we do now and I acknowledge that not all of my ancestors were good people and that this in its own way has created the current situation. However none of this is to do with where we live or happen to have been born.

As far as I’m concerned we are all humans and that is what I feel connected to, nationality is a mix of politics, money, ego and luck.

Bunchymcbunchface · 06/01/2023 11:05

Yes I am

xogossipgirlxo · 06/01/2023 11:06

Yes. I don't live in my country though. I intend to go back in approx. 2 years. I'm not English, but definitely have warm feelings about this country too, because I live here and never experienced any harm. I'm Polish and very proud of my nationality. It doesn't mean I'm nationalist. I just love this piece of land, history, our national anthem. I never mix politics or state of the country with patriotism. Governments come and go. It's not about current state of affairs.

HisNameWasMike · 06/01/2023 11:12

Thepeopleversuswork · 06/01/2023 10:14

No, not at all.

Honestly (and I'll probably get flamed), I think its a bit stupid to be proud of having been born in one particularly country and not another. It's not anything you have any control over and its in no way a measure of a person's quality, ambition or intelligence. What's to be proud of?

I also think patriotism fuels the worst kinds of division and xenophobia.

Can't see any upsides to it really.

Very much agree with this.

I don't understand people who are 'proud' to be whatever. What pride is there in an accident of birth? Bizarre.

HiccupHorrendousHaddock · 06/01/2023 11:25

I’m proud of my city - one I choose to live in and invest my time and energy to engage with, in the hopes of making it better.

I’m proud of my region - I appreciate its beauty and the resilience of its people, and how it keeps a lot of the good things from the past while changing and adapting for the future.

I actually embarrassed to be British now. I was proud to be an EU citizen, a member of one of the boldest, most hopeful political projects to ensure peace in our tumultuous continent.

I am ashamed that, immediately after a man shouted “Britain first!” as he murdered a young MP, the country could vote in favour of a Brexit that was so bound up in “Britain first” ideology. We lost all moral credibility that day.

I bet it felt similar to be a decent American citizen under Trump… every time you’re abroad you kind of want to say “I’m sorry about all that, it’s awful and I don’t agree with it either.”

We made ourselves pariahs, then laughing stocks. We chose this, though god only knows why. We’re letting charlatans and asset strippers destroy what it took decades to build.

AuldWan · 06/01/2023 12:04

I'm Irish, not patriotic, in fact I dislike patriotism because I think it has led to so much death and destruction globally. But I like Ireland and love living here. I think we do some things really really well, and some things really really badly. I think that's probably true of every country.

Nagado · 06/01/2023 13:25

Yeah, I think so.

I really don’t have much connection with Scotland or NI, but I love England and Wales with a passion. I think the UK has the best actors, comedians, writers, musicians & singers, designers, artists, engineers, scientists and sports people in the world. I love our architecture and how you can go to a city like London and see buildings like the Tower and the Shard, just mingling in together. I love our seasons and our landscapes; how we complain about the weather whatever it’s doing. I love how we have castles everywhere. I love how you can walk down certain streets and hear a dozen different languages in as many minutes and eat food from anywhere in the world. I love that we insult our friends but are exceptionally polite to people we can’t stand, and the way that only another Brit understands what ‘with all due respect’ really means. I love that the only acceptable response when someone drops a tray of drinks in a pub is to cheer. I love fish & chips, roast dinners, cawl and cooked breakfasts. I love that we still have native languages and English hasn’t eradicated them all. I love that we have Morris Men and bagpipes and male voice choirs and Irish dancing, and that each nation has a sense of humour that can make you roll on the floor with laughter. I love our weird traditions and our fondness for oddballs and underdogs. I love how a whole nation becomes obsessed by an old man doing circuits of his garden to raise money for the NHS. I love how we have churches, mosques, synagogues, gurdwaras etc all rubbing along beside each other. I love our accents and how we know what part of Britain someone comes from based on what they call a bread roll. I love our museums and our art galleries. And a million other things.

I know that we’ve got our problems and that some of them are pretty serious. And I know that some of us are pretty horrible. But I’d still rather be British than any other nationality.

Cuppasoupmonster · 06/01/2023 13:26

No. What does it even mean? That I’m happy I exited the birth canal on a certain patch of land?

orbitalcrisis · 06/01/2023 13:29

I used to be mildly patriotic but we're now literally a shithole.

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