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Original poster

To tell you the NHS is a frightening failure for children?

332 replies

redorbreak · 05/01/2023 20:19

I suppose when we read headlines it's A&E waiting times and often focused on adults

But I'm here to give a personal account of how dangerous it is for children, something we haven't shone the light on as much as adult care and waiting times being horrible right now.

DD was born very prematurely and she had some awful breathing this morning, which then worsened into sucking in a lot at the rib cage (not that unusual for her but it seemed worse than usual). She couldn't stay awake much

I knew an ambulance would take a long time and needed the car, so I was going to drive her myself. I went to put her into her car seat and she went floppy, like a rag doll. Limp and floppy. I screamed and luckily H was there who phoned an ambulance

I explained calmly but seriously on the phone what was going on. The phone operator said 5 hour wait. I said please, she's gone floppy. Please help us. She said sorry, but 5 hour wait times. Can I take her myself?

I explained I could take her myself but I wouldn't be able to see if she was okay or not? I'd be driving. She said that was safer than waiting for an ambulance

I put the phone down and took her in, frightened, petrified for her life. I got there after 25 minutes and rushed to her. She was still not responding. She was triaged straight away. Her Sats were sitting at 69/70.

She is currently in PICU (intensive care) and I don't know when she will wake up. Nobody seems to be straight with me. I'm not getting a clear picture here. My H is on his way up now and hopefully they will tell me straight what this means for her now

The NHS is fucked.

OP posts:
ImustLearn2Cook · 05/01/2023 23:24

I’m also from Australia and I can tell you right now that the level of medical care and availability of doctors and specialists, availability of ambulance, availability of bed spaces in hospitals etc is not consistent across the whole country.

Melbourne and Sydney have many hospitals, doctors, specialists. But, that is only a small part of our country.

Kendodd · 05/01/2023 23:24

EYProvider · 05/01/2023 23:14

There are far fewer people in Australia. The UK is full to bursting and we don’t have the infrastructure to cope with it.

Someone from a remote Scottish or Irish village will be along in a minute to argue that this isn’t the case, but they should try living in London to grasp the reality of what is happening here.

Show quote history

Sorry but how is being 'full to bursting' (don't agree btw) relevant? As long as public services keep pace, numbers shouldn't be a problem. There are other, more densely populated areas of the world. We have made a political choice in the UK to have low provision.

ImustLearn2Cook · 05/01/2023 23:26

@Kendodd you are absolutely right.

ImustLearn2Cook · 05/01/2023 23:28

@redorbreak You must have been absolutely terrified. I hope your baby makes a good recovery. Sending love and well wishes 💐🌺🌸

WoolyMammoth55 · 05/01/2023 23:29

dollymixtured · 05/01/2023 23:15

I appreciate that the OP is no doubt extremely distressed and therefore I will assume that she didn’t think through what she was saying. However it leaves something of a bad taste for someone to rant about the NHS being a ‘frightening failure’ for children when it will be NHS treatment at likely a cost of 10s if not 100s of thousands of pounds that is the sole reason this child even survived.

Ugh you are vile.

OP, like us all, like our parents and grandparents before us, has ALREADY PAID for her and her family's healthcare through taxes and NI contributions.

Because she, and all of us, HAVE ALREADY PAID for our healthcare, we should expect the same standard of excellent care that was delivered consistently by the NHS for many decades, peaking in 2008.

Since then the Tory government has destroyed it. Therefore, as OP points out, the system has failed her child today. As the nurses on strike for the first time ever in this country are pointing out, the system is failing patients at an unprecedented rate. NHS leaders went on record this week to call the crisis 'unprecedented': www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/02/intolerable-nhs-crisis-to-continue-until-april-health-leaders-warn

OP is doing nothing wrong here. She is speaking the truth and is well within her rights to do so.

Whatever assumptions you are making about her and her child's right to access healthcare, are odious and misinformed.

@redorbreak sending you love and solidarity, wish these brainwashed Tory trolls would find their basic human compassion for once and/or just STFU <3

BabyFour2023 · 05/01/2023 23:30

WoolyMammoth55 · 05/01/2023 23:29

Ugh you are vile.

OP, like us all, like our parents and grandparents before us, has ALREADY PAID for her and her family's healthcare through taxes and NI contributions.

Because she, and all of us, HAVE ALREADY PAID for our healthcare, we should expect the same standard of excellent care that was delivered consistently by the NHS for many decades, peaking in 2008.

Since then the Tory government has destroyed it. Therefore, as OP points out, the system has failed her child today. As the nurses on strike for the first time ever in this country are pointing out, the system is failing patients at an unprecedented rate. NHS leaders went on record this week to call the crisis 'unprecedented': www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/02/intolerable-nhs-crisis-to-continue-until-april-health-leaders-warn

OP is doing nothing wrong here. She is speaking the truth and is well within her rights to do so.

Whatever assumptions you are making about her and her child's right to access healthcare, are odious and misinformed.

@redorbreak sending you love and solidarity, wish these brainwashed Tory trolls would find their basic human compassion for once and/or just STFU <3

Show quote history

But she hasn’t been failed… her child is in PICU being cared for and said in her previous Post that she was given care as soon as she walked in.

MrsRinaDecker · 05/01/2023 23:30

Thinking of you OP and praying your daughter is on the mend soon.
On the off chance you’re in Scottish city D, with hospital beginning with N, I’m local to you and happy to drop off a meal / coffee / phone charger / anything you need.
Absolutely shocked at what you’ve gone through today, I knew it was bad, but not how bad. And agree with others.. you’re a rockstar of a mum for getting you both there safely.

Pleasepleasepleaseno · 05/01/2023 23:33

@WoolyMammoth55 I agree completely.

Crumpledstilstkin · 05/01/2023 23:36

I hope your daughter is doing much better and you've been able to get some rest.

We had an incident with a floppy child about a year ago and had an ambulance within minutes. Same child has spent a fair bit of time in a+e and it's been really mixed on time to be seen but it also varied area to area. We also had to go from one hospital a+e to another for a second opinion and they were world's apart. Guess which one was in the affluent area.

Bluekerfuffle · 05/01/2023 23:37

How awful and scary. It really is in a terrible state now.
I hope your DD is ok Flowers

dollymixtured · 05/01/2023 23:39

WoolyMammoth55 · 05/01/2023 23:29

Ugh you are vile.

OP, like us all, like our parents and grandparents before us, has ALREADY PAID for her and her family's healthcare through taxes and NI contributions.

Because she, and all of us, HAVE ALREADY PAID for our healthcare, we should expect the same standard of excellent care that was delivered consistently by the NHS for many decades, peaking in 2008.

Since then the Tory government has destroyed it. Therefore, as OP points out, the system has failed her child today. As the nurses on strike for the first time ever in this country are pointing out, the system is failing patients at an unprecedented rate. NHS leaders went on record this week to call the crisis 'unprecedented': www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/02/intolerable-nhs-crisis-to-continue-until-april-health-leaders-warn

OP is doing nothing wrong here. She is speaking the truth and is well within her rights to do so.

Whatever assumptions you are making about her and her child's right to access healthcare, are odious and misinformed.

@redorbreak sending you love and solidarity, wish these brainwashed Tory trolls would find their basic human compassion for once and/or just STFU <3

Show quote history

I am not making any assumptions. I am commenting on the information the OP has posted. I in no way indicated any thoughts at all about her right to access healthcare, weird take on your part.

Bluekerfuffle · 05/01/2023 23:39

But she hasn’t been failed… her child is in PICU being cared for and said in her previous Post that she was given care as soon as she walked in.

Yes, she has. An ambulance should have been there in minutes which would mean paramedics attending to her, not having to wait 25 minutes with no medical care in that state.

Kendodd · 05/01/2023 23:40

ImustLearn2Cook · 05/01/2023 23:15

@Cuppasoupmonster Everyone has the equal value and importance and right to be treated humanely. Whether you’re a baby or a 90 year old. It is not about how much is potentially left in your lifespan. It is about now. What if that 90 year old is in extreme pain and suffering? Does being 90 years old mean that they do not need to have medical attention so that their pain and suffering can be alleviated?

This is real life, with real people not a philosophical argument.

All people deserve to be treated humanely. We shouldn’t be in a position to have to choose who deserves humane treatment and who doesn’t.

The problem that many people are saying they are having with the NHS is that there is a supply and demand problem. Not enough ambulances available, not enough bed spaces available for the amount of people needing them.

That problem isn’t solved by deciding who is more worthy of being prioritised.

Oh, and triage shouldn’t be based on philosophical arguments. It should be based on practical need.

Yes, everyone is entitled and should receive good medical treatment, including prompt ambulance attendance. I'm afraid I don't agree that a 90 year olds life is worth the same as a childs though. Lets say both needed a organ transplant and you have one organ assuming normal lifespans with a new organ, and death quickly without, who would you give it to, the 80 year old, or the 11 year old? Maybe you think it immoral to make such a choice and both should have equal right, so a coin toss maybe. Personally, I think it would be immoral not to choose the child who might get 60 years more life out of the treatment .

WeNeedMoreFairyLights · 05/01/2023 23:41

@redorbreak you sound an absolutely fantastic mum. You got her help, you said what was needed on the phone and when that didn’t help and no help was coming you managed to drive her to hospital and get her immediate help. You did that. You are awesome. Sending you lots of love.

dollymixtured · 05/01/2023 23:42

Kendodd · 05/01/2023 23:40

Yes, everyone is entitled and should receive good medical treatment, including prompt ambulance attendance. I'm afraid I don't agree that a 90 year olds life is worth the same as a childs though. Lets say both needed a organ transplant and you have one organ assuming normal lifespans with a new organ, and death quickly without, who would you give it to, the 80 year old, or the 11 year old? Maybe you think it immoral to make such a choice and both should have equal right, so a coin toss maybe. Personally, I think it would be immoral not to choose the child who might get 60 years more life out of the treatment .

Show quote history

Let’s hope you are never in charge of any policy decisions. The idea that children and babies are ‘higher value’ than the elderly is just ghastly.

NicLondon1 · 05/01/2023 23:44

Really hope your baby is doing alright OP. I also had a premature baby born at 27+2 and am praying for yours tonight xx

Cakeandcoffee93 · 05/01/2023 23:46

Are you fkin kidding me?!?! There’s people prioritising the elderly over babies on here and children?!!!of course The babies and children should get priority

Pleasepleasepleaseno · 05/01/2023 23:46

@dollymixtured it's a ghastly situation if a choice has to be made between one or the other, yes. But if it did have to then of COURSE the child should be chosen over the elderly. I'm honestly shocked that anyone wouldn't think that tbh.
But things should never be so desperate that choice needs to be made. We've 100% failed as a society then.
Everyone would want them both to get help.

dollymixtured · 05/01/2023 23:49

I have yet to see anyone give a good reason why ‘of course’ babies and children should be prioritised. It does however give an interesting insight into how very skewed some parents thinking is about how important their children are to the wider world.

Kendodd · 05/01/2023 23:55

dollymixtured · 05/01/2023 23:42

Let’s hope you are never in charge of any policy decisions. The idea that children and babies are ‘higher value’ than the elderly is just ghastly.

Show quote history

Actually I think NICE makes the very same calculation I do, years of life added.

WinterSnowing · 05/01/2023 23:55

Just giving you virtual support - what a scary thing to go through and well done for getting her to the hospital. NICU are amazing, had a child in there once and they really are fantastic. Wishing you all the best.

Pleasepleasepleaseno · 05/01/2023 23:56

Are you elderly yourself @dollymixtured ? Sounds like perhaps the skewed thinking is yours.
The obvious reason why a baby should be chosen over a 90 year old is because the 90 year old has already lived 90 years and at best may have another 5 or so left. The baby is at the beginning of their life. I honestly cannot imagine how any sane person would think the elderly would take the priority there.
Also babies can go downhill fast, as a clinician who joined the thread earlier said themself.

wintersdreams · 05/01/2023 23:57

My goodness OP that’s awful and must have been terrifying for you. I hope your DD gets better soon 💐

ImustLearn2Cook · 05/01/2023 23:58

@BabyFour2023 She was failed because anything could have happened to her baby strapped into the backseat of a car without a trained paramedic or equipment to respond to life threatening change in her baby’s condition. That is the whole purpose for ambulances.

CrunchyCarrot · 05/01/2023 23:59

What a terrifying experience for you, OP. I do so hope that your daughter will be OK. Flowers

I just felt like I wasn't living in the safety of the UK at all. It was a weird feeling, like the safety and calm of a civilised and reasonably organised country had gone

It's exactly like that, isn't it, like the safety net that was always there has gone. My MIL had a stroke a few days ago and had to wait 3 hours for an ambulance even though it was a Cat 2. As she'd already been lying on the floor for probably some time before being found, it was very stressful. We were told not to move her, so no taking her in a car. The changes in our country are frightening.