To tell you the NHS is a frightening failure for children?

[redorbreak]

I suppose when we read headlines it's A&E waiting times and often focused on adults

But I'm here to give a personal account of how dangerous it is for children, something we haven't shone the light on as much as adult care and waiting times being horrible right now.

DD was born very prematurely and she had some awful breathing this morning, which then worsened into sucking in a lot at the rib cage (not that unusual for her but it seemed worse than usual). She couldn't stay awake much

I knew an ambulance would take a long time and needed the car, so I was going to drive her myself. I went to put her into her car seat and she went floppy, like a rag doll. Limp and floppy. I screamed and luckily H was there who phoned an ambulance

I explained calmly but seriously on the phone what was going on. The phone operator said 5 hour wait. I said please, she's gone floppy. Please help us. She said sorry, but 5 hour wait times. Can I take her myself?

I explained I could take her myself but I wouldn't be able to see if she was okay or not? I'd be driving. She said that was safer than waiting for an ambulance

I put the phone down and took her in, frightened, petrified for her life. I got there after 25 minutes and rushed to her. She was still not responding. She was triaged straight away. Her Sats were sitting at 69/70.

She is currently in PICU (intensive care) and I don't know when she will wake up. Nobody seems to be straight with me. I'm not getting a clear picture here. My H is on his way up now and hopefully they will tell me straight what this means for her now

The NHS is fucked.

So the 90 year old. Do you have children?

👏🏻 Absolutely! It doesn’t make you Dr Mengele to say so.

What an enormous amount of projection you have done there. No concerns about my own mortality, death is a certainty for all of us. Child deaths are no more tragic than adult deaths, indeed for much of history they were extremely commonplace. Preserving the lives of children and babies at all costs is an extremely modern concept as is keeping people alive who in reality should not have survived or who should not still be alive. To pretend that these are somehow universal experiences or views is erroneous.

Child deaths are no more tragic than adult deaths

Yes they are. What is wrong with you?

Apologies I thought you referring to point one of the quote you had posted. Hence my response.

No they are not. What is wrong with you? Like that weird post earlier about how the parents would be devastated in a child but when the elderly die it’s all just fine as it’s to be expected! Who actually thinks that they can rank the grief of others.

Yes that’s exactly what I said 🙄

Yes it is more tragic. Start an AIBU thread, ask whether a child’s death is more tragic than an adult’s, and see what the poll says.

@dollymixtured

Well. We will never agree.

Child deaths are more tragic than adults for the simple fact they have barely even began their journey. I feel very sad for you for thinking like that and you are in the minority. Children’s deaths whether you know them or not do tend to touch peoples souls but clearly not yours.

In a perfect world everybody would be treated, it goes without saying. You take a very black/white approach and you clearly lack empathy for younger people than yourself, specifically children. I suspect you are deeply unhappy and you really are afraid to die.

There are a lot of 90 year olds out there who do have humility and grace and would disagree with your views.

Of course child deaths are more tragic. The loss of my grandmother was sad and I miss her lots but ultimately I'm fine and can get on with my life. I dread to think about my children dying, but I can assure you I know it would be worse.

😂😂😂😂 this is so far from the truth and such a massive stretch that I really can’t do anything but laugh. And I am laughing at the wild suppositions about me personall and not at the concept of child deaths, before anyone tries to take that massive leap.

Obviously your own children dying would be the worst thing you could think of, no one is disputing that!

@dollymixtured

I think it’s quite inappropriate to laugh actually in the context of this thread. You are now seriously proving me right with your horrific lack of empathy and numerous laughing emojis. Crass.

But even objectively, a random child I don't know dying is still worse than my own grandmother dying. Ok, on a personal level, I would miss my grandma more and if would personally affect my life more, but I know objectively that a child's death is a much worse tragedy.

It may stun you to know I value a ‘stranger’s’ child even above my own elderly relatives. Any right thinking person would. And my elderly relatives would be horrified if a child came to serious harm because resources were directed to them instead.

@Comedycook

Of course. Locally to me we had the horrific tragedy with those young boys falling into the ice before Christmas. A huge, huge amount of people turned up in the days afterwards to lay flowers and light candles. I suspect a certain poster thinks that’s all a bit “Disney” and a modern construct. What a terrible way to think.

I am not sure what issues have been triggered for you by this thread but you seem determined to make this quite personal. As I was very clear my response was to your ridiculous projection and assertions about me personally, not in response to the topic in hand. If you are not able to have a discussion without trying to be personally offensive then I suggest you step away from the thread. I have said numerous times that this discussion would be better had elsewhere but you and some other posters seemed determined to have the concept here.

I really think dollymixtured is a troll who is for some strange reason enjoying the attention on this thread.
I cannot imagine anyone who wouldn't think the loss of a child ANY child is more of a tragedy than that of an elderly person. And to be clear this doesnt mean the elderly life is worthless and in an ideal world BOTH would be treated of course. And more to the point if they did hold this unusual viewpoint that anyone would think this thread is the correct place to hammer their opinion home. And the laughing emoji? Wtf. I won't be engaging any more and I would suggest others do the same- although obviously that is your choice
OP I really hope things are looking better for your daughter this morning. Please know we are all thinking if you

No she’s right Dolly. If you can’t see the difference between a 90 year old that has lived a full life - marriage, kids, career and whatever else - and a baby that hasn’t even had the opportunity to do these things, then you’re so inherently unreasonable that we literally cannot have this debate with you.

Why would a prem baby cost the economy more long term? Outcomes are excellent these days. DH was born at 31 weeks 35 years ago. He is and always has been a fit, healthy person and pays a shedload of tax.

DD also prem. Now healthy 3 year, developmentally completely fine, bright cookie actually. Likely to contribute to future economy and society.

My grandfather at 90: required extensive care at great cost, was not happy to be alive, got little enjoyment from life and was no longer able to contribute much. He would have been horrified if ANY of his health needs were prioritised over those of a child or younger adult. He considered the doctors insistence on vaccinating him to be a waste of time and money, an attitude i have found not unusual in people his age!

You asked how being full to bursting was relevant. It’s relevant because we don’t have the infrastructure to cope with it, which is what I said.

You don’t agree? Where do you live?

@dollymixtured

No you put several laughing emojis on your reply which was highly inappropriate in the context of this thread. It is quite clear you lack any sort of self awareness.

We are not going to get very far. You do not think a child death is anymore tragic than an adult one. A 90 year old for example. People are disagreeing with you, and I would hazard a guess if you were to start a thread in relation to this matter on AIBU you would be absolutely in the minority for your view.

Therefore there isn’t much more to discuss. I feel sad for you, genuinely. You lack insight, humility and good grace.

@Pleasepleasepleaseno

Yep, I am done now feeding the troll.

Me too 🙌🏻

There is no problem with people disagreeing, people are allowed to have different views. What is a shame is the fact that you decided to come up with all sorts of wild and inaccurate suppositions about me as a person and then when I responded to your quite frankly bizarre assertions you seem to have decided to double down on them.

How about you all stop arguing on how to prioritise who gets to die and we focus on the fact that the NHS is fucked and it needs fixing. If we do that then no one has to die.

Step 1: new government