AIBU to want/expect a little more

[Jimboscott0115]

Having a bit of an existential crisis I guess so thought I'd reach out for some advice sorry it's a long thread but I've tried to give plenty of info and may just be venting and get told to get in my box by you lot!

I live with my GF and have done since the first lockdown and have 3 DC (17, 14, 8) from a previous marriage who I have 50% of the time. Kids are happy, no drama with the ex or anything and everything broadly runs smoothly (as smoothly as it can with 3 DC!).

GF has a DS who is 22 and in theory stays with us 2 nights a week but is rarely here which is fairly standard with social life etc so no issues.

My challenge is my GF doesn't really engage with my DC, she's like another adult in the house but doesn't take much of an interest in them or really support with anything that may mean taking a little responsibility for them. Some examples:

• GF woke up and went to get a drink Late one night, my youngest DS8 woke up and came out of his room. Rather than put him to bed, she asked me to come out of bed and sort him. This is common at any time of the day if he ever needs something and I'm in a different room etc

• She'll never come on trips out or activities with the kids unless it's something she specifically wants to do. She's never been to either DD13 or or DS8 football training or matches which are often on my days, swimming lessons, won't come and sit with me and have a coffee if I take them to a trampoline centre etc (I often go on, but have said I'm happy not to as they don't need me) and rarely comes out for food or anything if we go out for lunch and won't spend any of her own money on family activities but will happily spend money to go out with me or friends at least weekly. She'd never dream of attending any school activities, sports days etc when invited. She won't even watch a family film with us if we have a film night unless it's something she wants to watch.

• Not a single time in nearly 3 years has she offered to look after one of them if I need to do something, helped me get them ready if we're going somewhere or even had any form of parenting type engagement with them (no behaviour discussions, no checking in on them proactively, no helping with morning routine when both younger DCs have inevitably misplaced PE kit or need something specific for packed lunches).

• She wants to know pick up times, drop off times, food plans etc every step of the way for the kids so she can measure the impact to her plans. Literally the first comment I get back after telling her I'm picking up later or need to run one of the kids somewhere is a question about how it'll impact her plans or she'll say something like 'well I might be going out at that time' to make it clear she can't / won't help. Going out in this context is usually going for a walk to get her steps in, noone to meet or time constraints etc. I'd clearly factor in solid plans which we write on our calendar. It happened tonight, I was taking DS13 to football training and had a work call to make while she was there so asked GF to look after DD8 at home (he was playing in his room and is very low maintenance when doing that) and immediately I got 'i might go for a walk, can you ask DS17' I did and all was fine, but it's the immediate stepping back from being asked and the fact that we both knew she wasn't going on a walk that got me.

So while my relationship with her is great when it's just us two, and the kids get on fine with her, AIBU to want or expect more? I don't want her to replace the kids mum, they have one - but I sit there at various events with kids who's stepparents are present and involved and sometimes wonder if I'm going to have to spend the rest of my life choosing between DC or GF or balancing them both precariously to make sure I can meet everyone's needs - and occasionally just hiding away for some 'me' time!

For context we've had a couple of arguments where I've asked for more support during really busy times or when things clash which wasn't given and she said she will in future, but it's never materialised.

Both work full time and both share household chores, cooking etc.

That's a bit harsh. He sounds like an involved and engaged Dad.

The world would be a better place if everyone had the kind of Dad that wanted to watch their soccer games, happy to ferry them to their clubs, jumped around with them at the trampoline place and harmoniously co-parented with their mother.

@Jimboscott0115 what's the financial spilt? My DP moved in for a bit but it didn't really work so he's moved out again. I also rent and we split it based on income. 25% him, 75% me. Which also reflected there's two of me and only one of him for most of the time.

I think I'd work out what was making me feel unhappy and what would make me feel more of a family. I do think it's unreasonable to expect her to sit with you at activities, most parents don't double up on this, or to pay for things for your children. But the odd hour of babysitting, days out together I would think to be reasonable.

I can see thinking about buying a place would make you wonder whether it's a joint home. Would she be buying with you?

17 year old does everything herself barring the occasional lift so doesn't really factor into this point, in fact we're car shopping for her next week and her test is soon so even that disappears in the near future.

Other DS can't go herself we live outside the city and her local club is 4 miles away and not on public transport. Their mum is 5/10 minutes away and we purposefully moved to this area to be 5 mins from school but the nature of being outside the city is that everywhere is a drive away.

I don't ask anyone to shoulder responsibility, hence everything gets done and spend loads of time with my kids, I haven't for anyone else to take over, just to support occasionally.

I think she’s got her priorities right for a 40+ woman who’s done her time child-rearing. As long as she is kind to them and doesn’t create a bad atmosphere for them, all seems fine to me. Your kids as a group are too old for someone to come in and get involved in parenting duties really.

@Notcoolmum - it's 60-40% ish right now which factors in 3/1 DC, but ultimately we've both ended up paying about exactly what we did in our individual places previously.

It's a fair shout and I think I need to split out some of these concerns into 'deal with it' and 'this is worth discussing' and see where the conversation leads

In terms of buying, both options would be on the table as I wouldn't look for us move together yet I alone buy the house as that feels like a weird power dynamic that could cause problems so assuming all works out, it'd be joint, but with me paying likely 60-70% of the mortgage. If not, then depending how things go, I could buy alone for me and DC.

I agree with this. and I dont mean the stuff you do to support each other equally because you are in a realtionship - its the amount of emotional and time labour out of your free time BEYOND just being an equal partner. Stuff you would do for her parents, and her son, or her friends perhaps?

You say the kids like her, they are happy. I assume she is nice to them, she just doesnt want to parent them. We are always being told this on MN - that the step kids are the parents responsibility, and not to drop into the role of support parent / substitute parent. And then when someone has firm boundaries, its considered wrong. I think she is right to be honest, she is a girlfriend, not your wife. She isnt even a step parent.

who's house is it BTW? People seem to be assuming its yours, but it may be hers, in which case its even less her responsibility. Just wondering what you do for her son?

you do sound like a good, engaged father though, Im not knocking that at all!

To be honest you need to decide if this is something you can put up with. I couldn't blend families and would run screaming from a man with 3 kids because I know I just don't have the capacity for it. I think she is being a little unreasonable because being in a relationship with someone with kids means they come as a package. So it comes down to you and whether or not you can tolerate this but it seems you feel a bit resentful towards her. Swimming lessons and trampoline parks sound terrible to me but if you're going to be in a relationship with someone with kids you kind of do have to sign up for that life.

Yeah it's a valid question but I'll invest my time in that stuff too, small things like driving to her parents and getting their Christmas decorations down from the loft last month and no doubt will drive up again in the next week or two to put them back up (and actually have a visit, not a flying in/out to get the job done). I've been on a couple of trips away to see her friends in the last year, stayed with her at theirs, been on nights out with them etc and her son, while doesn't need much as he's 22, a social butterfly and drives, I'll always invite him to family meals, give him a quick lift somewhere if he needs and have a chat with him when he's around (when he's at home he mainly games with his mates).

Fair enough on your opinion, appreciate the viewpoint and I'll take it into account.

The house is rented under both names. It'll be the next step of buying later this year that's ultimately driven this discussion as it's a big decision to make, I want to buy again and we'd both be in a position to later in the year.

It's called boundaries and she has hers firmly in place.
She's raised her DC and doesn't want to start again with yours, she's got to the stage in her life where her DC is practically off her hands and now wants to enjoy her free time not be a third parent/ part-time babysitter to DC that are not hers.
As for not attending events / hobbies/ watching kids movies, why should she, she's done all that with her own DC. I couldn't think of anything worse.
You mention your lack of "me" time, that's the life of a parent, she's under no obligation to facilitate your "me" time.
You say you get on and she's not unkind to your DC.
You want more, someone who can take over looking after your DC, I'd hire a babysitter if your "me" time is that important.
I take my hat off to her, too many women get involved with partner's with dc then end up being an unpaid cleaner, babysitter and all round bottom wiper.
I admire her firm boundaries

Would you consider having a conversation with her about who does what in general?

She might think that it's not fair, but need some encouragement to say it. She might be fearful of the 'give an inch they take a mile' phenomenon that you can see now is really common. It might help to talk to her about that. Say you know a lot of men take advantage and expect women to be the default caregiver- tell her that's not what you're asking for or expecting at all. You fully intend to do all the parenting during your 50/50 time.

Make sure the housework is fairly split, check in about how she's finding living with the children, and talk about the additional help you provide each other to make each others lives easier. Assuming the housework and child related stuff is fair and working for her, I think you could raise the fact you give her regular lifts as an example of something you're happy to do for her. Would she consider helping- in a Very Limited Way with some clear boundaries- with X or Y for you.

I wouldn’t really want to stand and watch my own kids playing football or doing swimming let alone someone else’s.

It’s rare child where you can just go in and hoover their bedroom without having to pick a load of stuff off the floor, sort the washing, tidy up, etc. There is no reason she should be doing any of that.

In my opinion, yes, YABU.

That is not to say I am right, but it is all to common that women get into a relationship with a man with children and then become the default parent for that man's children. You may think asking her little things is okay, but it really can be the foot in the door.

I am speaking as someone who was in a relationship with a man with two children (at the beginning of it, aged 7 and 9). He would never ask me to do things, but would "pop out" over dinner time so I obviously had to cook for them. If I was going to the supermarket, he'd tell me he needed something for the kids, which turned into a list. I ended it after a couple of years as it was clear he was after a cleaner, cook, nanny and not a partner.

They are your children and she has clearly set her boundaries out.

Why would she go through the tedium of a swimming lesson or stand in a muddy field watching a football match? That is your job. Why would she get up in the night with your child? That is your job. Being around three children is exhausting, especially when they're not yours.

She is not the mother. She has done her time parenting. Parent yourself or find someone who is happy to play that role.

seriously though, if a woman wrote that her partner wanted her to get up in the night to her own children or expected her to clean her own children's bedrooms, everyone would be like, sorry, what's the question? I think it's great that she is leaving the parenting to you. You are their parent, she isn't. She's done her parenting, I imagine the last thing she wants is to run round after yours.

I haven't read all responses so I may be going against the grain but don't people with children come as a package?

When she started seeing you she knew the responsibility you had with your kids so if that were me I'd consider you all as a whole and not you on your own. So moving in surely should have been an acceptance of at least engaging with them with basic needs of getting someone back in bed in the night etc.

I may be different but if I was her and didn't want to do anything with them I wouldn't continue relationship. I get she's not their mum but she could be a step mum and everyone I see in that role is usually really hands on.

You have years to go with your children and how it is now, she's laid her cards on the table so it's up to you whether you like it or don't. But I think YANBU really.

I am quite a cynical prick on here- but your choice of partner is extremely refreshing. Many men in your boat would have found an excitable 25 year old nanny girlfriend zero boundaries who would have loved to play stepmum. She’d have sacrificed her own bloody life and hobbies to ferry your kids to yours, to try and paint herself as the perfect woman.

I really respect you for not doing this. Many men rush into relationships solely to outsource their kids and get the shitwork done. I think your girlfriend is right to uphold her boundaries and not slide into situation where she is essentially parenting. She’s had her kids, she’s done.

The money thing and her not spending money on family days- completely fair enough. You aren’t married, don’t have joint property, don’t have shared finances. She shouldn’t be funding your kids.

Given how you clearly do a lot for her and run errands for her parents, the more practical stuff- the occasional lift to a hobby, etc. …I don’t think you are unreasonable to ask.

Have you framed it as ‘can you do x so we can do y?’. I think you need to have a chat about how your kids are your responsibility, how you don’t expect her to parent them BUT for more of a harmonious household can she help you out with 1-2 reasonable tasks or commitments? Keep it logistical, and ensure you say what it will allow you to do (get started on dinner, extra overtime, paint the fence, whatever)

I think the bottom line is that its hard raising kids. Alot of men dont realise this - Ive no idea how long you've been divorced, but I do believe that alot of the minutae of day to day life with them is alot tougher than many dads realise, because mums often just get on with it, and alot is mental load which is invisible and keeps the ship running.

Of course Im generalising here. But it does seem many times that dads just didnt realise how hard work juggling job, home and kids can be, when they end up with them 50% of the time (especially when they may have done far far less while they were married) and in looking for a girlfriend they are also hoping to find someone to lighten that load - something that is far less expected of a new man in a divorced woman's life. Even on this thread you can see many women who think that it's your GFs place to be much more involved. Society expects women to be caregivers, and women themselves are conditioned to be nice, to help out, to be kind and play a mothering role.

Now Im not saying that this is whats happened here. I do see that you do alot, and would appreciate a bit of a hand now and then. I agree with those who say that the football and trampoline watching and waiting is beyond the remit - it IS boring. TBH I wouldnt do it, and it doesnt take two.

However she IS doing some stuff - Im assuming that if she is cooking on a night when the kids are there, she isnt just cooking for you and her? She is cleaning all the house apart from their rooms when its her turn - so shared spaces that they have been using? As others have said, kids rooms are not easy to just hoover, it can take three times the time just to get all the crap off the floor.

So given what you were having to do when she didnt live there, you are getting 'extra' - help with housework, help with finances, company and shared time when kids in bed / with their mum. She is being nice to them, just not doing the parent based responsibilities. On her loss, as dating someone with kids, she doesnt have you to herself 100%, so she makes sure she occupies this time with other stuff, rather than doing those things during time she could be spending with you. I think thats why she is being straighforward and communicating well asking about times and schedules. She has probably seen too many women finding themselves in the default parent role by stealth, so is making those boundaries clear, as she is only your girlfriend, she is not a step mum, and may not actually want to be one. Its quite an investment of time and commitment just as a girlfriend.

In regards buying - you can get a deed of trust for relative shares in the property, reflecting proportions put in / paid, if you wish to buy together. Of course, it being only your property and her having no stake / chance to earn equity leaves her financially very vulnerable, and if she is clear on her boundaries around childcare, she probably will be as equally financially astute. If you broke up she could find herself homeless, and with nothing to show for having paid into, and helped run, a property only in your name. I suspect you will have some big conversations ahead.

Thank you, and yeah I did that messing around for a few months after my marriage ended and god it's exhausting, we took our time for a few months and purposefully kept the relationship as us two without the complexities of kids etc (except for sorting schedules where it was unavoidable).

Thanks for the advice, I think you're right, keeping these conversations as a bit more logistical/transactional is probably the way to go

@NettleTea - thank you, some good advice there and you're right in terms of extra work on her part, it's another perspective that I perhaps haven't considered enough, though always say thanks when jobs get done - you've given me the bigger picture insight.

And you know what, I'll happily admit it was harder at first than I realised, while always involved heavily with the kids, I didn't realise how hard it all was overall until I had to do it all ( effectively, we work it so whoever's house the kids are at deals with whatever needs doing - school discussions, clubs, friend issues etc) and it was a shock at first but this was well over by the time we moved in and there is a pretty good routine in place.

Financially, whatever happens I'd never leave her either dependant on me or short of funds. Little things like making sure she gets a proportion of death in service payout from work if the worst happened so would definitely make sure that's catered for from any agreement.

@Jimboscott0115

I suspect there is a lot your girlfriend is feeling but not saying. And you're not aligned in terms of how much you want your lives to be combined vs separate.

I wouldn't buy a house with her until that's more resolved.

I suspect it will resolve by you accepting her boundaries. It would probably improve your relationship if you stopped asking her for help. If I was trying to hold a boundary and my partner kept asking me to do something I've been clear I don't want to do (that's what's happening when you invite her to trampoline world or to babysit or you stay in bed hoping she'll sort your 8 year old in the middle of the night) then my reaction would be to hold that boundary even firmer because I would feel you weren't understanding/respecting it.

If what you want is a girlfriend, then she sounds great. If you end it because she doesn't want to help you with the kids- then I guess that says what you're really looking for.

The other thing that jumps out at me is that she had her son at, what, 20? 21? Really young. She missed her 20s because she was raising a child. Presumably you had some child free fun and adventures in your 20s, in which your 'me time' was so ubiquitous you didn't need a term for it. She didn't. This is her first real time as an adult to herself, to do as she wishes, not having to consider the needs of children. I can absolutely see why she doesn't want to give that up.

The other thing that jumps out at me is that she had her son at, what, 20? 21? Really young. She missed her 20s because she was raising a child. Presumably you had some child free fun and adventures in your 20s, in which your 'me time' was so ubiquitous you didn't need a term for it. She didn't. This is her first real time as an adult to herself, to do as she wishes, not having to consider the needs of children. I can absolutely see why she doesn't want to give that up.

this is also a really important point

Isn’t the OP 39 with a 17 year old daughter, so was only 22 when she was born too?

I think it’s clear your GF is not interested in parenting your kids in any capacity. I don’t think it’s a case of BU, you just have to decide if you’re happy with the arrangement.

This. They are your kids not hers.

She is your GF... not their mother nor their parent. They're not her kids. She bares no responsibility what so ever to them. Not emotionally nor financially.. child care plans are for you and the mother to take care of. Be glad she's not mean or cruel to them. It's 2023 choosing partners to look after your kids is a thing of the past.

Be glad she's not mean or cruel to them.

Apart from anything else this is such a bizarre thing to say. He should be glad that she's not mean or cruel to his kids!! Okay.