Fucking furious with my 18 yr old daughter

[geniegenny]

We are in ROI. She is doing her leaving cert. She would party and sleep all day long if she could.I am a single parent with two other kids with SN. My eldsest is a nightmare to try to get her to go to school, study, fill forms, help out at home, show kindness or empathy.I am currently at hime from work with covid.She is very put out as I am not free to drop and collect her all day long.Her Dad will never be forgiven for leaving her as she sees it.She refuses all contact. Education is very important in my eyes.Fortunately when my exh had his affair, I was in a position to continue to work full time and finance my own children as he has opted out.I'm drilling into my children the importance of financial independence and education, so that when the shit hits the fan as it can do, they will be able to walk away without finances being a reason to being trapped. I've suggested she leaves, does an apprenticeship, suggested a PLC with a view to maturing and a next step to college or a training BUT...these are all beneath her, if her snobby attitude is anything to go by.She thinks she is off to Uni in Autumn.Her Teacher's want her to do her mocks as theyre pretty sure she will fail them all.She has massive notions so they think that this might knock sense into her. She has stayed in bed for the majority of the last three years.I've offered counselling, therapy and all support.Dr believes that she is blackguarding as she is well able to socialise, eat , sleep, go on holidays, meet friends, work part time etc so has outruled depression and anxiety.I agree with him.I've told her that come Autumn, whether she is going to college, working, doing a PLC, she will not be lying in her bed here all day and if she wants to do that , she'll have to move out. Her lack of empathy and selfishness is absolutley breathtaking and makes me feel that I have failed very badly as a Mother. Ive tried all and every approach.School has been amazing as has the EWO who advised me to literally leave her alone and soak up the consequences . Anything else I can do ...please. Or do I need to just wash my hands of it all.Im handing out hundreds of euros in fees, applications, grinds, open days, mocks, supervised study.I may aswell be pissing it against the wind.. and I really dont have this money floating around.

Pick your battles has been my mantra with my youngest DD. If she wants to stay in bed all day and party all night let her. But do not give her money, lifts, clear up after her, cook for her etc. basically go on strike. When school finishes, job, uni or out. Watch out for drugs, again not under your roof, if she does call police. I have no idea where young adults get their sense of entitlement, it’s totally ridiculous, i could never imagine getting away with it, with my mum. But pick your battles or it will make you ill x

I agree. Provide support and help. However accept there's a limit. Maybe don't pay for as much. Not in an angry way. I know it must be infuriating but try to seem calm. But say that you don't see the point in paying for things she's not using.

It sounds like you're a brilliant mum. However we are not in full control of everything our kids do. Sometimes outcomes surprise us. But also remember this isn't the end. A dose of reality like failing something might help. I also think she might be uninspired by what she's trying to do. Perhaps she hasn't found her thing yet. But I don't think you should be doing things differently from what you are now.

On university though I think it she has ambitious even if she isn't studying enough these shouldn't be belittled or undermined. Say the idea is a good one. You genuinely hope she gets the grades needed. As a teenager I was ridiculously ambitious. I would never have achieved those things. But people saying you know if you work hard you might was really inspiring. If someone would have said well you don't work hard enough etc... I wouldn't be doing quite well as I am now.

I had one like this. I let her take her lead but held the hard line that once the A levels results were in, then that was the way the cookie crumbled. There was no room for a layabout in this house. Was not happening.
For as long as my dc are trying to better themselves then I will cook, clean, iron, give allowances, drop off and pick off. I'd die for my kids. But I will not indulge a layabout.
The A level results weren't great. But I held the line. Make your decision but doing nothing is not a decision.
She got a job in retail and whilst it's not what I planned for her it's done her the world of good. She's on good money, paying housekeeping proudly, saving up and I start to see that actually she's a fabulous young woman (and she sees it about herself too). It's quite a physical job and she's much healthier and fitter for it. I don't know what the future holds, she may regret pissing her education up the wall but she'll have to deal with it.

I don’t have much advice, but just wanted to say I sympathise.

I have an 18 year old - she’s in her first year of university. She was similar to this last year except she deliberately lowered her sights in terms of universities and courses as she ‘didn’t want the stress of working hard’. She did ok at A level considering. I honestly don’t know really how she’s coping there - she’s spent the Christmas holidays lying in bed, going out, blowing money, not interested in spending time with us but demanding things like car use, money.
I have tried so hard to keep reaching out to her, keep giving her chances, extra lessons (grinds) etc but sick of being a doormat. My heart is just broken. I’ve tried to support her through providing counselling and she recently got an ADHD diagnosis but she won’t take her prescribed medication.

You’re not alone, and you are certainly not a failure. It sounds like you have done an amazing job under tough circumstances. When are her mocks? Perhaps these will give you some leverage and her a reality check. Say that you will only pay for additional when she fulfils her part of the bargain. Then let her accept the consequences. The fact that she can hold down a part-time job is something.

I realise though the advice can all sound reasonable in theory - very different to implement with a difficult teenager. But be kind to yourself and there will be brighter days ahead. 💐

OP, it sounds like a very difficult situation for you and all your children ( mindful that everyone in a house is affected when this sort of conflict exists). However as other posters have said, your DD needs a suitable therapist ( Not CBT) and likely an appointment for an ADD/ADHD assessment given the family history of SN and her school refusal and other behaviours. Generally a GP is unlikely to be able to diagnose either depression or ADHD and tbh I would not have much confidence in a GP who concluded that she was just blackguarding given the considerable familial trauma she is dealing with. Your DD may be able to enjoy socialising and working as they present no difficulties/challenges
to her and it’s possible that these activities are an escape or coping mechanism. However this does not confirm that she is therefore just lazy or a brat . Her family life and relationships with her father sounds stressful and traumatic by themselves , and some form of ND could result in depression/overwhelm/ procrastination. There is also the recognised impact of the long Irish covid lockdown and lack of school routine on teenagers in the past few years to be considered. In saying all this, you may need to step back for your own sanity as it sounds like you also have a lot going on. Nagging, pressure, ultimatums likely won’t work as it may not be that she won’t work/ attend school, it’s that she can’t . These tactics will just create a stressful environment for you all and will drain you and your DD for very little result. I would concentrate on getting her supports instead, to help her now and in the future. I know you mentioned you have tried to get her to engage with therapy, IME you have to keep
trying until they are ready and you also need to find a therapist she can trust/ relate to ( you may need to trial a few)and an appointment with a clinical Pysch. Given the Irish system, you may need to go private if your GP is not sympathetic unfortunately. Would recommend doing a bit of research or the school might be able to recommend someone good. The LC may not work out, it happens, but thankfully there are other non linear options and second chances in our education system now. Mental health and appropriate diagnosis if there is ND much more important. This will pass, you are all dealing with a lot at the moment but things can improve. Be kind to yourself in all of this, it’s a very stressful set of circumstances.

This sounds so like my nearly 18 year old. Model pupil until just before GCSE exams during covid. Passed them all . Started A levels ( his choice not pressured I to it)but could not cope. Had a lot of time off ill . Complicated as poor immune system and asthma but most of illness due to anxiety. It has taken an extremely long time to work out anxiety was causing the physical symptoms. He wouldn't accept needed mental health support. Started year 12 again in Sept. Extremely lazy, procrastinating not trying with homework and gaming too much. Decided couldn't cope with biology and as school wouldn't let him give it up couldn't make it in to school at all . Now dropped out totally. I am devastated for him. He always wanted to go to university and leave the dead end seaside town we live in . Has finally referred himself to cams and has no idea what to do next,no idea and doesn't care. .wondering now if he has adhd . It has been an extremely stressful time for our family.

Sounds like she may fail so that will be a wake up call for as will have redo another year? I know this only too well having been an educator for 27 years and a parent, whatever we do or say unfortunately some, sometimes many, just don't listen and there is nothing you can do, they can only ultimately learn through their own mistakes.

Please feel reassured I taught a girl who was the same as your daughter, refused all help and slept her young life away, then did an access course, went on to university and is now a nurse. Time and maturity are sometimes the only things than change attitudes so please don't beat yourself up.

Personally I have a young DC who I know is going to be a struggle to keep going in education and behaviour, you are not alone my lovely. Xx

I also think ASD or ADHD. You speak harshly of her, she won't be doing this to spite you. She sounds overwhelmed.

A couple of issues

• zoology has never been 625 points.
• universities do not decide in the points level- it is completely based on demand

You said exactly what I was thinking but wasn't clear headed enough to say in my previous post. 100% agree.

Hardly issues???

It was a broad explanation of the Irish education system for posters who asked how it worked. Your post adds nothing to the thread and if you wish to be pedantic, is zoology even the name of the course which a quick look on google says its called the Biological and Biomedical Sciences Programme. But does it really matter? I think not.

I just picked up on something you said earlier OP how she was crying her friends hadn’t left her a seat at their table. Could this be a regular feature of her school day? Being excluded hurts and really demotivates even the brightest of kids. If she wasn’t already feeling extremely sensitive she may have been able to deal with it but it sounds to me like she’s asking you for help, just not the kind you’re offering. She needs a mum to love and support her choices, whatever they may be, agree with them or not - not a nag who guilts her because of the money being spent on her for something she clearly doesn’t want to do

I do understand the desire to have your daughter do well and want to be as motivated as you are but in the end she’ll do what she feels capable of. Your current approach isn’t working for her or you.

She needs support but I don’t think it’s in the areas you’ve honed in on. Try showing her you trust her independence and she may start behaving more independently.

You're misleading people !!

To say that the universities decide the points in advance negates how the while system works ??

And you can do a degree in Zoology in Trinity....

I merely added truth to your misrepresentation .

You can do Biological and Biomedical Sciences and choose Zoology as your specialist subject. I know somebody who did this.

The OP is clearly worried about her daughter and your posts have contributed precisely nothing to her thread and tbh you’re just detailing her thread.

Im not going to engage any further with you but you are absolutely free to start your own thread about how the Irish education system works for anyone interested.

Read your follow up posts and fucking hell OP, you sound like you absolutely hate her. I'll bet she knows it, too. Don't think I'd be doing very well under the circumstances either.

'Mama never loved her much, daddy never keeps in touch..' is a line from a song that pops into my head.

I've no doubt you're coming from a place of concern (some of it, anyway) but have a look at yourself before you turn the judgement on your daughter.

I'm completely surprised at the lack of fucks given, and sympathy towards her re her dad leaving. That shit messes kids up. Of course, it doesn't excuse the behaviour, but it can go some way to explaining it, too.

Normal/healthy teenagers don't stay in bed for days on end. I speak as one of those, previous, teenagers. Funnily enough, I was in quite similar circumstances to your daughter. I was massively depressed but didn't know it because I could function (sort of). My schooling suffered, and I didn't even sit my GCSE'S and effectively left school at 15.

I've done not too bad. I could have done better - though not under the circumstances, and I say that with a decade ish of perspective since. I have no GCSE's, no degree, and I work with people who do have degrees, and usually need them to be working where we are. I got here by hard work, applied myself in other ways, when I got back on my feet. It was fine. Academia isn't the be all and end all to life. Education is massively important, but I dare say you sound as if the world is ending and are stressing her out so much so, you're having the opposite impact.

Of course I'd recommend kids don't do it this route, and sit their exams and do well at them. It cannot harm them, only help. But it's not the only way. Support your daughter. Love her. Realise that she is not you, she is her own person and you can guide her and advise her, but she will make her own choices however frustrating that is. Realise that she has had a tough time - the way she speaks about her father speaks volumes, if you stop to actually listen. Hating her, will only result in having one less relationship with your kids in the future. Doesn't sound like it'd be that bad for you though, to be honest.

I was offered counselling too. It helped not one bit - I didn't want to attend it at her age, was forced to. When I was ready, as an adult, with a more mature brain to process things sensibly, I sought counselling myself, when I SAID SO. It did wonders then.

Talk her through this as an option:
www.military.ie/en/careers/army-careers/what-is-an-army-recruit/

I’m sure her mother was rather she was depressed, than in the army 🙄
Great thread to pray on young people with no support and mental health issues, the militaries favourite recruiting ground. Cunts.

@SnowlayRoundabout

No, it's different from the UK system.

Very basically, students all study the same curriculum in any given subject, and sit the nationally administered exams (the Leaving Cert) in early summer, having previously applied to university via the Central Applications Office (CAO). Leaving Cert results are fed into the CAO computer and university offers are issued via the CAO, based on points attained / number of places available in each course.

As an example of how it works, if 500 students apply for Medicine and there are 400 spots available, only the top achieving 400 applicants who have put Medicine first on their CAO application will be accepted. This means anyone applying for courses that are usually offered only to top performers has to put their ears back and produce top grades, and there are strategic aspects to filling in your top choices in tbe CAO application (students can apply to up to ten Bachelors level courses).

It's an anonymous and impersonal university application system, with acceptance to university hinging on the results of the Leaving Cert exam.

@geniegenny

I think you should stop battling your daughter and maybe investigate whether she is neurodiverse.

It would make sense given her approach, and the fact that that she has siblings who are neurodiverse. The fact that she's female also mitigates against any issues being noticed. Girls tend not to have the same manifestations of ADHD that boys do and fly under the radar in schools as a result.

I also think life is too short to continue to drive this conflict forward. Sit your child down and tell her there are more important things than the LC, and that you're ready when she is to talk about what really matters to her in her life.

@Dreamingaboutholidays

Points thresholds are not set by the universities but are driven by demand/ calibre of applicants each year. The number of points it took to get into any given course only becomes clear after places have been filled. There's a general ballpark students aim for that is based on previous years' points requirements for any given course.

@RosesAndHellebores
'On the mainland' FFS!!!

Brexit makes no difference to the ability to go to University in UK - freedom of movement between the two comes from the Common Travel Area, which dates from long before the Eu existed. www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-travel-area-guidance/common-travel-area-guidance

Another vote for potential ASD. I hated school but couldn’t explain why, now I look back it was extreme social anxiety as a result of being on the spectrum. I became a school refuser and ended up pregnant and in care. I was bullied and taken advantage of when all I wanted was love and my own space. I did eventually go to uni as a mature student but needed medication to help me with the social interaction. Please don’t reject her and call her self entitled, it may be masking behaviour and all she needs is love and support.

Hang in there. School isn’t for everyone. Nor is uni … one of my DDs was a nightmare to get to school … she flourished a few months after and grew up a lot.