The gentle parenting philosophy makes me feel guiltily for having any feelings other than love

[michellet86]

Why is it not ok to show my anger? i mean appropriately and safely, not violent or aggressively. How is it ok to tell our kids their feelings are valid but then we have to suppress anything thats "negative"or only show it stoically?

I don't want to raise a kid who can't understand that he can't do whatever he wants without consequences. There ARE people in this world who will react with anger and he needs to know that.
I prefer the term "responsive parenting". My kids see when i'm getting angry. They also see how i process and handle it- if i need a few minutes to myself to help calm myself down or need to move my body to get some of that energy out, if i need to kind of check in with myself about why something is bothering me.
Sometimes i do loose my cool and yell and then they get to see how i handle that, they see that i feel bad for doing it and learn how to make amends with others when they mess up. These are all important lessons for them as they learn how to process and handle their own emotions in a healthy way. The reality is at some point parents will get angry with their kids. There might be a tiny percentage that doesn't- but that percentage probably has some combination of no outside stresses, lots of support (including the ability to have time to themselves) and that rare child that never pushes their buttons. Now if you're constantly angry and frustrated, yelling constantly somethings off and you might need to find a way to change those patterns but bei absolutely tired of your toddler whining all day for the 27th day in a row with no relief some annoyance is normal.

Anytime there’s a thread about gentle parenting being largely ineffectual, a load of full paid-up and evangelical ‘gentle parents’ come on and shout ‘noooooo, that’s not gentle parenting, that’s bad/permissive parenting!’ Without really expanding on what GP actually entails day to day, in real life for them.

But whenever I’ve encountered gentle parents in real life, they’re always very, very soft, ineffectual and the children rule the roost. I’ve posted previously about a gentle parent at my kid’s nursery. She’s very vocal about it. She’s not a meek woman. Her slightly older son threw a rock, hard, at my toddler. She simply praised his ability to throw. No punishment at all. I was almost speechless. We have friends who follow the philosophy and I have to be honest, I cannot stand being around their children.

Either gentle parenting is as ineffective as many of us fear, or people are struggling to administer it, but I’ve yet to encounter much positive about it.

Quite simple gentle/authoritative parenting involves firm boundaries, saying no but a lot of empathy with emotions, good role modelling It is a lot to explain the ins and outs when there is a lot to it.
the lady you describe is certainly not gentle parenting she sounds like she’s permissive parenting, throwing a rock would not be congratulated it would be dealt with!
I don’t at all think gentle parenting done properly is ineffective, it most certainly helps bring up a child who has empathy, respect and knows firm boundaries.

Is the OP coming back to the thread?

Gentle parenting… even the term is pretentious and silly. It’s for people with too much time on their hands and too much time on the Internet. Each person is an individual, there are no guide books or Facebook pages that will raise any of them.

Allowing your kids to do whatever they like whenever they like is not going to do anyone any favours at all. This is not gentle parenting, this is permissive parenting and it's not a good idea on so many fronts.

Gentle parenting is parenting with boundaries and the use of "no" but done kindly and emphatically without threats, violence or humiliation. It's still a no though and it takes a while to figure out the language as to how to say no, kindly. Basically it's treating your kids how you would like to be treated but age appropriately and trying to understand the why of the behaviour. The only time I suspend this is when someone is going to get hurt, then it's a firm "no, we do not kick/hit/bite/whatever. It hurts" and a quick removal and we'll have a chat once everyone has calmed down.

Example from our house this morning: Four year old wanted to take our dog for a walk with her Dad but he needs to walk quickly to make sure the dog gets a good walk and so that he is back in time to start work so the answer is no with short explanation as to why not. The four year olds response is to grab on to her Dad's legs and cry - to be completely expected as she's four and she wants to go too. I had to gently peel her hands off and her Dad left which means even more tears. I did not shout, I wasn't mean to her what I did was to wait until she had calmed down a bit and offered a big hug. We then had a chat where I said I was sorry I peeled her hands off and gave a short explanation as to why she couldn't go. We talked about whether she was angry or sad and we talked about how everyone gets sad and angry when they can't do something they want to. Was it fun, not particularly, was there lots of crying - yes, do I hope that the boundary was enforced with kindness and patience yes I hope so.

Why do I want to treat my children with kindness and patience well firstly because that's how I would like to be treated and because their brain development is appropriate for their age. They will not act like rational adults because they can't, their brains just simply aren't that developed yet. It's unrealistic to expect that.

Do I sometimes loose my patience and shout, yes I do because but I always make sure I apologise for shouting and say that I lost my patience. Gentle parenting doesn't mean that you don't have emotions yourself, it's more about showing your children how to emotionally regulate those and how to repair a relationship by saying sorry and talking about how you feel.

@Herejustforthisone

Any one is free to research parenting methods and choose the most effective one for them. What's irritating is people who choose not to do the research but then clump lazy parenting in. (Although I dislike the term gentle parenting as it sounds passive)

To be clear my ds has asd and developmental delays so some things I do most parents wouldn't need to as their kids have the skill set.

A lot of my parenting is about managing my sons environment so basically I don't set him up to fail. He has a routine and environment he feels safe and secure in then within that environment I challenge to help him develop. I also preempt (where possible) potential issues and resolve them before they become a problem.

An example - supermarkets, once my son outgrew the trolley he couldn't cope with walking around the supermarket. This is due to sensory issues, boredom. Most parents will do one or two of these things -
Not take them
Bribe for good behaviour
Threaten them for good behaviour
Punish bad behaviour
Reward good behaviour

I chose not to take my son as he couldn't cope and I was setting him up to fail but I still want him to manage a supermarket as he needs to learn that mundane tasks have to happen. So I did take him to local shops where it was just a few minutes so less pressure. I gradually built this up and now I can comfortably do a smallish shop at Tesco with him (half hour or so) So he's learning to manage this but at his own pace.

I do consequences , I love a natural consequence. Don't want to wear a coat? Fine we can take it with us, put it on if you get cold. We have time out but I stay with him and support him through his emotions. His emotions/feelings are just as valid as mine. I try not to make him feel bad/silly for having feelings. I don't take my emotions out on him. Often when parents get angry/frustrated it because they are overwhelmed and the situation feels unmanageable. Now imagine being 3 or 4 and feeling that way. If your husband raised his voice and told you to get out the room until you can behave or to stop being so silly. You would probably be told to ltb on mn. Yet parents feel it's appropriate to treat children that way and when other people don't they are labelled weak or lets their child rule the roost. And yes of course there's ineffective parenting out there. Working in ss I saw plenty of children who didn't know how to behaviour who regularly got screamed at and smacked, or totally ignored. Gentle parenting is a good effective method but I would say it's the hardest one to master. (Not claiming I have mastered it)

I think parenting is about trying to get into the mind of the child and use that knowledge to inform how you respond to them.

That does not mean you never get cross with them - nor that you do not have boundaries.

And sometimes a firm no is better than a lengthy explanation, especially in matters of safety. There may be things that a child cannot grasp intellectually, but they do need to know they must not do them.

Dystopian I am mum of 2 fighty small boys 3 and 7. 1 ASD and the other....Iggy pop?? I also assumed it was all about nurture but turns out not! Also turns out the whole nurture thing isn’t as straightforward as I’d blithely assumed. So, thank you, really enjoying your posts and taking note!!

Also, I agree re Bandit and Chilli. It gets my goat sometimes tho that they are so fun and great.grrrr! Oh well.

@Dystopiawarming
I needed to hear this! Im a single parent struggle with a very physical 5 year old boy. I’ve been gentle and kind and calm but his behaviour has spiralled. Last week I laid down the law and said exactly what privileges would be removed if he hits and with hitting there are no warnings, one strike and you’re out. The difference is amazing, he was hitting in excitement/ anger/ sadness/ carelessness and now he just isn’t and all other behaviour improved. I think he was needing strong boundaries put in place to be able to relax and be himself.

Gentle parenting doesn't equal lack of boundaries and discipline. It just means you approach your children with empathy whilst acknowledging and respecting the way they feel.

See this is where i come unstuck on it. As parents, our job is not to acknowledge how important it is that the pear was cutted up, or respect their desire to only eat the darkest brown cheerios in the box.

It is to teach them that they will not often get their way about very specific things like this, that in social groups we have to consider everyone's needs, and we actually need to give them the context to downgrade these things as trivial and not world ending.

The reality is, a lot of the feelings toddlers have are:

• selfish
• anti social
• excessive
• impulsive in a bad way

These are not feelings to be respected or validated.

The fact is, any of these guides, tools, approaches etc exist for one primary reason.

To generate money.

I know we all like to think the best of people but these kinds of programmes or parenting guides aren't actually designed to improve your life, they're designed to make you rely on them more. Phrases like 'you must not be doing it right' and suchlike are effectively just marketing ploys to get you to buy a book, sign up to courses, follow on social media (which generates cash for the account), gain the creators notoriety so they get to appear on talk shows etc etc

That's not to say some don't have useful tips within them, but there is not one single method of parenting and the key is finding a balance across all types of parenting. The thing that the vast majority of these books or styles never focus on is a child's happiness - which is the single most important thing.

I also had reservations about making a strange world for my kids where they didn’t experience normal reactions from adults.

This is also my main sticking point with "gentle parenting". The scripts and the weird delivery which is advocated. It seems totally inauthentic.

In theory I can see how taking anger out of communication is a great thing. In practice the way that people advocate doing it seems to require you to neutralise all of your authentic emotions and deliver everything in an emotional monotone. If you are never allowed an emotional register which allows negativity or anger or fear, your happiness and excitement will presumably also seem inauthentic.

My mum wasn't a "gentle parent" (it hadn't been thought of at the time, 1970s). But she was someone who could not show negative emotion at all and who went to great lengths all the time to not react to things and not to show she was upset or angry. It left me very damaged in the way I relate to conflict or disagreement and I've had loads of therapy over it.

I don't think its great for kids to grow up thinking their parents have an emotional register.

Yet 'gentle' parents are the first to cry that any form of discipline is 'abuse'. There is a huge gap between saying 'oh don't do that my little sweetheart/would you like to talk about why you did that' (yuck) when your kid has thumped another one, and giving them a Victorian-style hiding yourself!
The word NO goes a long way.

Brilliant post.

People who slavishly follow parenting fads have lost the ability to parent instinctively and instinctive parenting is quite often about getting stern or shouty with a child displaying those ‘undesirable’ traits. Parents are made to feel guilty about this and yet this parental disapproval teaches a child how to behave in a social world for their own (and others) protection.

We have come so far the other way where just telling off a child is considered abusive and unnecessary and yet what we have is a society of children whose mental health is in crisis and the some of those rock throwing boys (who are praised for their throwing abilities) end up turning into insufferable man-children and incels with weird ideas about what they’re entitled to from other people (particularly women).

We should all be teaching our children to respect others and have independence and self control. This requires brave and consistent boundary holding. It’s purely selfish and lazy to not discipline and then label yourself a ‘gentle parent’. Far harder and more selfless to raise a child with the integrity and care for the rest of society.

I agree with a lot of the gentle parenting stuff and my children get told off and they know when I feel angry.

i haven’t found it that hard to navigate how to do it fairly naturally really. Part of them understanding that other people have emotional reactions to their behaviour is from me acknowledging their emotional reactions.

ASD and Iggy pop! That resonates so much, one probably on the spectrum here too and one who is half Iggy Pop half Ozzy Osbourne, only because he used to literally bite the heads and faces off toys and sometimes talks incoherently. I feel more like a bouncer than a CBeebies presenter most of the time. I am always the mum having to cut visits short, and give stern words. But also my kids know that I take a stern stance on treating others badly, and that is starting to pay off. They both hate bullies, which is a good start. And although they are awful to each other, they are mostly good friends and people the rest of the time (when not biting the heads off of soft toys 😂)

Because permissive parents all claim to be gentle parents maybe?

If you can say ‘no’ and issue punishments and firm boundaries, what makes it so different from just…parenting?

My ‘gentle parent’ friends never use the word no, never tell their child off, never use negative words, never punish (just hug it out, apparently) and as such their kids know that even if they do naughty shit, the worst that will happen is mummy crouches down to them and in soothing tones, explains why it’s better to do something a different way, before they get a big cuddle. These kids are glazed over when this happens. They really don’t care. Once their eldest was in a dangerous situation at my house. They called a soft ‘come back to mummy, darling,’ but the kid took one look at their mother and ran into the dangerous situation (a field of livestock). My instinct kicked in and I absolutely hollered ‘STOP NOW’, which stopped them in their tracks. I was in the doghouse for raising my voice at their kid, if you can believe. It’s this and the rock situation which means I don’t have much truck with it.

If my kid does naughty shit, I take him out of the situation, explain why it was wrong, tell him there will be a reasonable consequence if he does it again and then follow through with it if necessary. Which means he knows where his boundaries lie. He also knows that I damn-well mean what I say. No threats are empty in our house.

It’s not me who calls it “gentle”, but a lot of the child development stuff calls it that. They’re probably moving away from that now, I haven’t read some of this stuff for years.

I just read al the stupid stuff that people on here say their “gentle parent” friends do, and know I don’t do that. But then I also don’t go around labelling my parenting or even really talking about it with many people in real life anyway. Too busy just doing it.

Spot on.

Some of children's feelings and emotions deserve to be acknowledged. Others don't.

The trick of parenting is teaching them which is which.

One of the most important parts of parenting is teaching children that not only will they not get their way a lot of the time in life, but that getting their way all the time will actually do them more harm than good.

"Validating" and "acknowledging" every toddler emotion sends a subliminal signal to that child that this is what she should come to expect throughout her life. It's reasonable to have your emotions validated by certain people: your spouse, close friends, family etc. But growing up to believe everyone in society will need to acknowledge how pissed off you feel about the fact that you failed to get on the Number 8 bus twice in a row or that you didn't get a promotion or you can't get your tax return in on time sends a dangerous signal.

I do think modelling an ability to stay calm is very important and I certainly think parents should try very very hard not to use their kids as an emotional dumping ground.

But ultimately children need to learn that they won't always be the centre of everyone else's world and that adults (and parents in particular) also have needs which need to be respected. From what I observe of gentle parenting it seems to prolong a sense of emotional dependence on the parent and a solipsism and lack of self-awareness in the child.

“"Validating" and "acknowledging" every toddler emotion sends a subliminal signal to that child that this is what she should come to expect throughout her life. It's reasonable to have your emotions validated by certain people: your spouse, close friends, family etc.”

but if it’s parenting, then it IS your close family validating (or acknowledging, noticing, however you want to frame it). So what’s the problem. Me acknowledging how my children feel about something doesn’t mean anything changes about it or that any resulting behaviour is ok. Mine are particularly aware of how their behaviour or particular circumstances makes others feel because we have talked about how things make them feel. It’s worked very well.

I think some people can’t figure out how to hold all these strands of thought at the same time so they just rubbish it all.

Spot on!

I think ultimately this is my feeling about effectively done GP. Much of GP is just commonsense and not being a dick - I think if you work with children you're used to having to be patient with them, but I appreciate not everyone knows this especially if their own parents didn't model it. However, all the children I know whose parents are very vocal about GP still have tantrums at nearly 5 - I just don't think that's necessary, nor is it very pleasant for everyone around. We gave short shrift to tantrums around age 2 and quite honestly our children never ever demonstrate a lot of the behaviours these friends frequently complain about. The example of peeling a child off dad's legs prior to a dog walk I'm afraid seems indulgent to me - a bright 4 year old can easily understand dad is in a rush and there's no need to fuss. If mum had been on her way out to work and the child was off to the childminder, there would have been no time to indulge such feelings anyway so what then? Each to their own but its not for me. Unfortunately it seems you can't fundamentally disagree with GP without being told you just don't understand or what you think is GP is in fact something else.

@BiasedBinding

but if it’s parenting, then it IS your close family validating (or acknowledging, noticing, however you want to frame it). So what’s the problem. Me acknowledging how my children feel about something doesn’t mean anything changes about it or that any resulting behaviour is ok. Mine are particularly aware of how their behaviour or particular circumstances makes others feel because we have talked about how things make them feel. It’s worked very well.

Allowing children to feel comfortable with their emotions is a good thing. And learning that other people experience emotions is an even better thing.

But as @MilkyYay says validating every feeling without question encourages a tendency among children to feel that all of these emotions is equally valid. When they are not.

Being "listened to" at length when you are having a tantrum about not wanting to wear a certain pair of shoes and you're holding your entire family up communicates to a child that everyone in life will indulge this at the expense of everyone else. There is a time when you need to be heard and a time when you need to learn that your needs don't trump everyone else's.

It's one thing to be able to express annoyance but if all of these complaints or discussions are responded to in the same emotional register the child won't even develop a sense of what is unreasonable behaviour or how to regulate wants which are unreasonable.