To think this charity deserve prosecution for being so bloody stupid?

[Fucklechuck]

Just seen this in the news and went down a rabbit hole reading the whole story plus comments on their FB.

They took a bunch of young kids on a frozen lake (apparently without parental consent) and tried to justify it as a safety lesson despite clearly having no understanding themselves of the actual dangers. For example they're claiming the entire lake was frozen over with 2ft thick ice - no, it definitely wasn't, not in the south west of the UK, it's just not that cold in this country even in the recent cold snap. That's just impossible.

Their comments on their FB page are shockingly blasé and they've even been liking other people's comments saying that vaccines are a bigger danger to children than this was

Just can't believe anyone would be so stupid less than a week after the tragedy in Solihull and then to take to social media calling it a knee jerk overreaction to suspend their license until an investigation is complete shows a total lack of regard for the most basic H&S or risk assessment processes. I actually hope their registration to look after children is revoked by whoever has such powers!

What?! That's batshit!

www.facebook.com/658969770912931/posts/pfbid0mhj2DcvQnSsm1kWpvG4DxVSVFSWqvpYSak4xsdCLa9LkMXi4TFGTNngCzX9wsSKWl/

The charity's post and FB thread.

I work for a charity with children. We took our 5-7 year olds out, cut the turf and rolled it back, started a fire and gave the children precooked sausages and sticks so they could heat them up and feel like they were cooking them. We then gave them all marshmallows and chocolate biscuits and let them make s’mores. We told the parents what we planned to do and asked for extra parent helpers. With a group of 7-10 year olds we made salsa and guacamole from scratch. Every group had one very sharp knife and an adult. We did let the children use the very sharp knife under careful supervision. Again the parents were aware of our plans.

What this group did was terrifying and not handing out parental consent forms does not sound right. Ultimately every parent should be given a final say on what they think is safe for their children.

Oh christ, their facebook page. Yup, exactly the sort of people I used to run a mile from when I was home educating.

The activity was not planned!!

Yeah that makes is worse not better though

You don't have the first idea about safeguarding or modern education, do you. You can't do risky activities ad hoc without parental consent anymore. You have to observe a variety of rules. That's just the way the world is now. You may not like it but you can't change it and it's one of the reasons children are safer from horrendous experiences like child abuse.

I do know about safeguarding. I am shocked it was not planned.

Oh, you're shocked, I misunderstood. You were very supportive of it earlier, that caused the confusion.

I'm still amazed you know about safeguarding and defend this though.

I assumed the same as you given the previous posts

Because I wrongly assumed it had been properly risk assessed by people who knew what they were doing. Rather than - hey there is some ice, lets walk on it kids.

Absolute morons.

While I applaud the attitude of getting children out in to the great outdoors via Forest Schools etc, the absolute boom in this industry in the last ten years - often with orgs being led by people with minimal understanding of the countryside or first aid - means it’s sadly only a matter of time before an incident like this occurs again. Idiots.

If you look on their website they have published their risk assessment which has a hastily added at the end by the looks of it section for going on a frozen lake.

www.therewildproject.com/save-kensley

Wow, I have just looked at that Risk Assessment and they stupidly left it in Word.... the Info section shows that it was only created at 15:26 on the 16th December (so AFTER the first time going on the ice that day) and then modified at 17:00 (probably after the afternoon where someone saw them on the ice and complained - all in their own account of the day). So basically, the entire RA was written after the event happened..... and for the actual RA text for 'ice smashing and falling in' they have it at grade 1 for Severity (minor injury or discomfort, no medical treatment of measurable physical effects) and 3 for Likelihood (May occur at some time).... 😮

Oh God, they were brutal.

I guess that's what they mean by 'dynamic risk assessment' - made up on the fly after we've been challenged.

Frankly it beggars belief than anyone trusts this bunch of cowboys with their children.

I didn't even know you could check that, but wow. It doesn't get better does it!

They've listed falling into the lake as a severity of 1. That's less than "cut feet" from paddling in the water.

They have drowning listed as a risk for paddling in the water (although with the blasé tone that the lake is only 3ft deep and they didn't rate the risk) but they haven't considered that as a risk here.

They also write "a brisk walk back to warm up if wet would not result in hypothermia"

Nothing about cold water shock or just how bloody cold that water would be even if the child was easily rescued. Nothing about what would happen to the rest of the group if the ice broke and how many of them might end up in the water.

This risk assessment should not be for ice that is absolutely, definitely, 100% safe. It should be for any ice you might consider walking on otherwise it's meaningless. This organisation continue to demonstrate just how clueless they are.

They also have the severity of hypothermia from walking in outdoors in the cold and wet as 3. But apparently when walking on ice if you fall in there is no risk of hypothermia as you can walk briskly back.

So if you are walking in the rain you risk hypothermia, but if you are walking after falling in freezing water (ignoring how ridiculous this is) you don't risk hypothermia

I think in the risking hypothermia I will take my chances on the rain temperature over the pond temperature!!

Obviously these people are stupid but very rarely do I think people reach the level of stupid that it’s criminal. I’m reasonably experienced here (I’m a lawyer and I used to be a teacher, I’m also from Gloucestershire and spent a lot of time as a child at a place called the Wilderness Centre which is nearby and was a similar project). These people should be prosecuted. It’s not the initial stupidity but the doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on that stupidity. These people are not safe to be leading children and, as many PP have pointed out, their project appears to be great as a whole. It’s not great though - they’re just very well marketed. That very good marketing will allow them to continue tricking parents into leaving their children in their care. A child will die if this continues - and it will, because no one will prosecute them. It’s very sad.

I’m waiting for the thread when a child dies where someone questions whether there was a thread about them before and this thread gets pulled up.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/childcare/4699404-what-would-expect-to-be-the-outcome-of-a-very-serious-complaint-about-safety?page=1

Do they not have to do a proper 16 hour outdoor first aid course?
I thought any outdoor activity provider had to have that. I would want to see that as a minimum if I was leaving my child.
As a parent you don't know what you don't know and tend to assume people are properly trained.

(That's leaving aside the issue of them taking children onto ice, which I agree was terrible decision making)

Oh God Yes
"Death" hanging round the lake

I'm too young to have seen these as a kid but I watched a couple that were linked on FB recently and bloody hell Imagine showing those in schools or on kids TV now!

Who was the writer of that thread? Was it started by a member of the organisation?