To think this charity deserve prosecution for being so bloody stupid?

[Fucklechuck]

Just seen this in the news and went down a rabbit hole reading the whole story plus comments on their FB.

They took a bunch of young kids on a frozen lake (apparently without parental consent) and tried to justify it as a safety lesson despite clearly having no understanding themselves of the actual dangers. For example they're claiming the entire lake was frozen over with 2ft thick ice - no, it definitely wasn't, not in the south west of the UK, it's just not that cold in this country even in the recent cold snap. That's just impossible.

Their comments on their FB page are shockingly blasé and they've even been liking other people's comments saying that vaccines are a bigger danger to children than this was

Just can't believe anyone would be so stupid less than a week after the tragedy in Solihull and then to take to social media calling it a knee jerk overreaction to suspend their license until an investigation is complete shows a total lack of regard for the most basic H&S or risk assessment processes. I actually hope their registration to look after children is revoked by whoever has such powers!

I'd have hit the roof if one of my kids was involved in this.

There’s absolutely no way on this planet that the ice was two foot thick. That’s insanity. It’s (very rightly) said that no ice in the UK is safe to walk on because it’s never cold enough here for long enough. To be safe to walk on, ice needs to be about 2-4 inches thick. There’s just no way at all that it could possibly be 2ft thick ice. You could drive a 25 tonne truck on ice that thick. It would take at least a month of non-stop below 0 temperatures to get 2ft of ice. We all know that didn’t happen.

@FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine but nobody actually knew this did they?
Most importantly the message these children have fucking unbelievably stupidly been given is that this was a good idea. Total insanity.

Their comments show just how naive they are.
“..] There were two adults present (trained leaders, keeping the children in a compact group at all times).

"Lake is so shallow, if the ice did break / (which it wouldn't because of the depth of the ice & prolonged cold) then they would be able to stand up and wade back out - to go back to sheds (5 minutes walk) and warm up.”

Of course children who fall on ice, into freezing water never suffer a head injury, a broken limb, or a sprain, do they?
Clothes soaked in freezing cold water and shoes or boots filled with water are so easy to walk in.

Absolutely idiotic adults , I wouldn’t allow any of them to take my dog for a walk

It's no doubt a bad idea I'll agree. But letting your child walk on any icy surface is pretty dangerous tbh. Slipping and hitting one's head on a kerb could have life changing consequences too.

One of the parents (or a family member of one of the children, can't quite recall) posted on mn at the time, I'm sure it must have been this she was talking about. The poster was asking who to report it to etc.
I can't see it now on TIO so must have been deleted for privacy.

There is no way that any body of water in England would freeze to have 2ft of ice after the short cold snap that we had. 2ft is ridiculously thick for our country - just can’t believe that. And what evidence have they provided of them having tested that whole body of water to ensure that it actually was 2ft thick?

Definitely a bit of a silly idea but let's be honest, an 11yo is going to have to try pretty hard to get killed in less than 3ft of water (at least part of it would be frozen). I think some people are being a bit over dramatic.

If I, with no qualifications or experience or understanding of tigers, took it upon myself to teach your DC how to safely pet a tiger, would you see the problem then?

These people were wrong. They taught the wrong thing because they didn’t actually have a clue what they were doing. They taught children that it’s safe to do something very dangerous. The ice wasn’t two foot thick (it can’t have been), they wouldn’t be ok falling into 3ft of water of that temperature, according to locals it’s much deeper in places too. You can’t feel how thick ice is from walking on it without cracking it (so it’s no longer safe) but they taught children that they could. Falling into icy water cannot be fixed by a five minute walk.

How on earth can you not see the problem with teaching children incorrect information that could encourage them to risk their lives without realising (let alone teaching them that incorrect information by risking their lives)?

The words “learn what safe ice feels like” sent shivers down my spine. My friend knew the children that died in Solihull, she is friends with their parents. This charity should be seriously looked into!

If you have to "feel" the ice to know whether it is safe or not then you're already screwed if it isn't. What on earth were they thinking?

What if a child fell through and slipped as they did so, on a rocky, muddy floor, then disappeared under the ice. Then other children go to help and they fall through as well. Who do the leaders save then? Hopefully not themselves - fucking idiots.

I live not very far away, 30mins. No way was that ice 2 foot thick. It was 5 inches in local ponds.

Absolute idiots. No one should go on ice in the U.K. ever. Our winters are too mild amd unpredictable.

If the ice was thick and a kid fell through they’d be more likely to get trapped in or under said ice, lacerate limbs or suffer head injury on ice. No way could they just wade out through thick ice. Idiots. Hope they get their charity status revoked.

The charity also said that "After a week of minus 10 degree temperatures- Woorgreens lake was frozen solid"
I'm fairly sure we have not had a week where it was been -10 consistently.
It might have fallen to that temp overnight but when the temperature raised, so would the ice's temperature.

Babbs Mill Park where the boys fell through ice just before Christmas, is very shallow . The men searching it were only waist deep.

Shock and hypothermia are killers too. The boys died of cardiac failure

The lack of insight from the charity into what the optics of this event are is staggering. They claim to have not known of the awful tragedy that happened a few days beforehand with the poor little children drowned in a frozen lake.

You can see the idiocy/ignorance evidenced right here on this thread...

What they did was extremely stupid and grossly irresponsible.

There's always that risk though and some parts might be frozen solid but not others. Since the 4 little lads that drowned I have seen video's on social media of people hammering hole's in the ice. Not while they are on the ice itself from the side of the lake's. Just to prove it's not as solid as people think. There's always that danger they could fall in.

To the PP who think that it’s safe because it’s only 3ft deep, Babbs Mill Park Lake is only 2-3ft deep according to the people who fish in it.

I mean it just beggars belief really. What utter idiots.

I remember those from junior school, particularly the "don't play on the railway" one. Horrible to watch at 10 years old, but they sure as hell kept us from doing anything stupid.

You can't "feel" if ice is safe!!

Overreaction.

So you step onto ice to see if it’s safe and surprise, it isn’t….. then what?

Also as previously said, what happens when you disappear under the ice you just fell through?

Unbelievable. No wonder there are so many unfortunate deaths/drownings in this country.

It wasn't safe ice. As OP has said, in the South West bodies of water were not freezing to two foot thickness during that relatively short cold spell, and it's incredibly blasé to claim that they would have been fine if they had fallen through. People notoriously have drowned in water 3 foot deep or less, and the shock of falling into freezing water can cause the heart to stop or go into dangerous arrhythmia.

If children need to learn what safe ice feels like, they can do that at an ice rink. Taking them out onto a frozen lake simply makes them think it's safe to walk on ice - and the next time they may not in fact be safe and there may be no adults around to save them.