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Original poster

To think this charity deserve prosecution for being so bloody stupid?

298 replies

Fucklechuck · 02/01/2023 21:48

Just seen this in the news and went down a rabbit hole reading the whole story plus comments on their FB.

They took a bunch of young kids on a frozen lake (apparently without parental consent) and tried to justify it as a safety lesson despite clearly having no understanding themselves of the actual dangers. For example they're claiming the entire lake was frozen over with 2ft thick ice - no, it definitely wasn't, not in the south west of the UK, it's just not that cold in this country even in the recent cold snap. That's just impossible.

Their comments on their FB page are shockingly blasé and they've even been liking other people's comments saying that vaccines are a bigger danger to children than this was Hmm

Just can't believe anyone would be so stupid less than a week after the tragedy in Solihull Sad and then to take to social media calling it a knee jerk overreaction to suspend their license until an investigation is complete shows a total lack of regard for the most basic H&S or risk assessment processes. I actually hope their registration to look after children is revoked by whoever has such powers!

OP posts:
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7
ACynicalDad · 02/01/2023 21:52

I wouldn’t trust them with my kids.

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 02/01/2023 21:56

It sounds like an incredibly shallow lake though? So actually very likely to have thick ice. And no danger of falling through.

Zombiemum1946 · 02/01/2023 22:00

All they needed to do is show the safety films they did in the 70's. I could give a detailed description of what happened in each one and its been 45 yrs.

SusanPerbCallMeSue · 02/01/2023 22:01

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 02/01/2023 21:56

It sounds like an incredibly shallow lake though? So actually very likely to have thick ice. And no danger of falling through.

And what about the next lake the kids decide to go on without supervision because they think it's ok?

Even if it's shallow it's still a huge shock to fall into freezing water.

They are bloody idiots. Don't walk on frozen lakes! None. Ever.

Hawkins001 · 02/01/2023 22:06

It is certainly omg 😲

FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine · 02/01/2023 22:12

I can see the argument about it being better to just stay off frozen lakes full stop, but I really dislike the sensationalist reporting tbh. Of course they conveniently fail to mention that the water was only waist deep (and quite possibly almost frozen through on account of this).

But no matter if a charity gets shut down as long as they get their sensationalist headline...

ClareBlue · 02/01/2023 22:17

It's a flooded reclaimed open cast mine. Is everyone confident it is only 3 feet deep at all points. Even if the water is 3 feet deep there will be another 3 feet of soft mudflats. And if the ice breaks they are all in, not just one that can be pulled out by the adults. The mud flats can not be waded through. They are like quick sand. And the temp of the water will seize muscles. That's why strong swimmers drown in flooded quarries every summer. The temp of water causes muscle issues.
Incredibly dangerous thing to do all round and learning about sensory perception of thick ice is just bullshit. Nobody should be on a frozen water body in the UK.

Tinkerbyebye · 02/01/2023 22:17

FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine · 02/01/2023 22:12

I can see the argument about it being better to just stay off frozen lakes full stop, but I really dislike the sensationalist reporting tbh. Of course they conveniently fail to mention that the water was only waist deep (and quite possibly almost frozen through on account of this).

But no matter if a charity gets shut down as long as they get their sensationalist headline...

Even waist deep water can kill. There is no reason for anyone ever ever ever to go on lakes they think might be frozen

GhostBridezilla · 02/01/2023 22:23

They were supervised and teaching them what safe ice felt like. I don’t see the problem.

RelentlessForwardProgress · 02/01/2023 22:25

Good grief that statement by the charity is so dangerously ignorant!

It doesn't matter if its only waist deep!

Cold water shock can paralyze muscles instantly.
Children are more at risk of this than adults.

Their reasoning that even if the children fell through the ice they could walk back out to warmth with no harm done is just ridiculous.

Northernsouloldies · 02/01/2023 22:30

How quickly the Solihull tragedy has been forgotten by some.

TimeToFlyNow · 02/01/2023 22:31

ClareBlue · 02/01/2023 22:17

It's a flooded reclaimed open cast mine. Is everyone confident it is only 3 feet deep at all points. Even if the water is 3 feet deep there will be another 3 feet of soft mudflats. And if the ice breaks they are all in, not just one that can be pulled out by the adults. The mud flats can not be waded through. They are like quick sand. And the temp of the water will seize muscles. That's why strong swimmers drown in flooded quarries every summer. The temp of water causes muscle issues.
Incredibly dangerous thing to do all round and learning about sensory perception of thick ice is just bullshit. Nobody should be on a frozen water body in the UK.

Exactly this , it's not just about how deep the water is . Falling through ice at that temp and like you say, it wouldn't just be one of them falling in . the time it would take to get them all out , it doesn't tale long to get hyperthermia in those conditions.

Fucking stupid, we don't teach children about risks by putting them in danger.

Anyone fancy having a charity stand their kids on the train track until a train comes?

EndersGame · 02/01/2023 22:31

I work for a charity. It often feels like I cant make a cup of tea without filling in a risk assessment form in advance. There is no way this should have been allowed to happen.

Realityisreal · 02/01/2023 22:34

When they say waist deep do they mean for a 6ft adult or a 4ft child? If someone fell through they wouldn't necessarily stay upright and land on their feet, they could slide at an angle and end up fully submerged.
The stupidity is really overwhelming and also, them being a charity does not mean we should assume they can't make mistakes.

TimeToFlyNow · 02/01/2023 22:35

EndersGame · 02/01/2023 22:31

I work for a charity. It often feels like I cant make a cup of tea without filling in a risk assessment form in advance. There is no way this should have been allowed to happen.

Not just a charity thing, I worked as an activity co ordinator in a nursing home. Also when I was training to be a mh nurse, there's risk assessments for every little thing. This should never have happened

And we wonder why there's so many risk assessments for everything, because of idiots like this

lljkk · 02/01/2023 22:38

The article says 3' deep max & the kids were age 10-11, so not little ones.
I can't get worked up about what (didn't) happen.

Kevinyoutwat · 02/01/2023 22:40

From the article:

"Lake is so shallow, if the ice did break / (which it wouldn't because of the depth of the ice & prolonged cold) then they would be able to stand up and wade back out - to go back to sheds (5 minutes walk) and warm up.”

That is one of the most stupid, ignorant things I have ever read. Wade back out - children, (or anyone) having fallen though ice ice freezing water! No matter how shallow, you aren’t just standing up and merrily wading out. Fucking hell, I’ve read some dangerous thinking in my time, but that takes the piss.

DoubleShotEspresso · 02/01/2023 22:41

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 02/01/2023 21:56

It sounds like an incredibly shallow lake though? So actually very likely to have thick ice. And no danger of falling through.

Jesus H Christ you cannot be serious? Confused

DoubleShotEspresso · 02/01/2023 22:43

FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine · 02/01/2023 22:12

I can see the argument about it being better to just stay off frozen lakes full stop, but I really dislike the sensationalist reporting tbh. Of course they conveniently fail to mention that the water was only waist deep (and quite possibly almost frozen through on account of this).

But no matter if a charity gets shut down as long as they get their sensationalist headline...

And if said lake is so frozen what temperatures do you imagine would be under the ice?
How long do you imagine emergency services and an ambulance might take to arrive currently?
Fucking ridiculous comment

tigger1001 · 02/01/2023 22:46

Frozen ponds/lakes etc shouldn't be walked on - that's the message kids should be taught especially after what happened in Solihull.

It's easy to assume that all the ice is the same thickness when it's not.

The charity deserves to be investigated.

Whydidimarrythis · 02/01/2023 22:47

What many PP appear to be missing is:

  1. This was very dangerous in itself. A ten year old falling into 3ft of icy water is very dangerous and could’ve killed them. It’s not the same as falling into warm, or even cold water.
  2. They were purporting to teach what safe ice feels like but they were wrong. So they were giving children the confidence to walk out onto other lakes and believe that they are safe when they aren’t. They were teaching them complete and total bullshit!
  3. The entire purpose of this activity was to do something they fundamentally should not have been doing - teaching children to feel confident walking onto a frozen lake.
They should have had the license revoked, what they did was dangerous on many levels and shows a complete lack of the necessary cognitive function to be charged with protecting children.
Original poster
Fucklechuck · 02/01/2023 22:48

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 02/01/2023 21:56

It sounds like an incredibly shallow lake though? So actually very likely to have thick ice. And no danger of falling through.

They are saying it's 3ft deep and had 2ft thick ice across the entire surface, but I have now looked the lake up on the OS maps app geek and it's over 300m wide so hardly a garden pond type thing that you could tell was frozen solid. Plus there are some locals saying on FB that they've seen the lake drained and it is much deeper in parts due to a trench running across it. So who knows? I strongly suspect that the thermal mass of a 300m wide lake in the south west of England is probably not sufficient to have uniformly 2ft thick ice.

I am just genuinely shocked that anyone would do this in the same week that 4 children died from falling through ice and try to justify it as risky play that "enhances cortisol levels". I get that risky play has benefits but this is beyond that IMO!

OP posts:
Kevinyoutwat · 02/01/2023 22:49

It’s also the “5 minute walk” to warm up that gets me.

Even if you did manage to wade though ice cold water after falling into it, good luck with walking for 5 minutes in cold temperatures in freezing, soaking clothes.

Honestly, the. stupidity is astounding.

FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine · 02/01/2023 22:51

DoubleShotEspresso · 02/01/2023 22:43

And if said lake is so frozen what temperatures do you imagine would be under the ice?
How long do you imagine emergency services and an ambulance might take to arrive currently?
Fucking ridiculous comment

Show quote history

If the ice is genuinely 2ft thick I doubt we're going to find out the temp of the 1ft of water underneath.

Hellocatshome · 02/01/2023 22:55

Absolutely fucking rediculous thing to have done. Were they some sort of ice specialists? Why did the children need to learn what "safe ice" felt like when the blanket rule is do not go on frozen lakes no matter what ever? Why did they think a soaked to the skin in icy water child would be fine walking 5 minutes to a shed even if they could get themselves out of the water?