There is no god

[OldKingCole]

Inspired by another thread … I was surprised by the level of atheism professed … as I always though I was in a tiny, tiny minority.
would be interested to see the MN response.

IABU - there is a god
IANBU - there is no god

Did you really think you were in a tiny tiny minority? That seems more daft to me than believing in God.

I never understood heaven/hell. If you’re bad you go to hell but as long as you pray to Godnyou are forgiven so you go to heaven anyway. Fab.

There are many current scientists (including some cosmologists) who are Christians.

I have a faith. Generally speaking I see God as the "why" and science as the "how". To me they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I believe in God. I also like to think I’m fairly intelligent! I am well educated, both in Religion/Theology and Science, and can think critically. I am actually a very logical person and a lot of my friends are surprised that I have a faith. My husband is atheist and we manage not to insult each other!
I don’t expect people to agree with me and don’t care if I’m judged by strangers but I don’t like the idea of being called thick!!
Also my faith isn’t perfect and it wobbles at times but I do believe in God.

I always say each to their own, but if I always prefer to place more faith and hope in other humans to achieve x, rather than some mythical beings.

Of course there is no god

It is ludicrous to think otherwise

I don't think the bible, or equivalent holy texts are correct. Mostly made by men to control people I'd wager.

I do think there's something though but find it hard to articulate. Not a good guy on a cloud, but maybe more like an energy, I dunno. Find out in 50 or 60 years all going well!

@Againstmachine

*Wow how arrogant I'm not informed enough to be debating existence of God, if you are a 'literal' scientist then prove it onus of evidence is on you.

Let's make shit up is what you are going with as a scientist.*

Hitchen's Razor en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor

"It implies that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim; if this burden is not met, then the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it"

So if you are claiming that god exists then the burden of proof is on you, not the ones who wouldn't even have an arguement to make if it weren't for those who claim that God exists.

‘Christianity teaches you how to be tolerant, kind, humble, grateful for what you have and to not judge others.’

the fuck it does! I’m sorry, but what now?
Humanism is what your thinking about, not a religion that persecutes gay people, women, other religions…

I derive enormous comfort from my belief that there is no god.

Totally agree.

No. No God wasn’t just about plugging gaps in knowledge. If you genuinely think this then there is a big gap in your knowledge of religion and how it operates in the lives of individuals and societies that you need to plug.

It’s striking how many people who claim to be evidence based make these simplisitic statements that are not supported by a survey of the evidence.

I'm a staunch atheist. I'm very proud of my beliefs, as much as I'm sure many religious folk are. I, like others, believe to be an atheist, you need to have critical thinking skills and realism in the face of fear (of death, or no afterlife).

I say this because it would be lovely to have an all-powerful god that will reunite me with my loved ones after I die, there to be no more pain and suffering, just peace & happiness. It is a lovely dream, and all anybody can hope for after what can often be, for most, a difficult life. I would absolutely love it, if this were the case. However, despite my wish for it to be true, I know it's not, and have to accept this reality despite the fact that it's a very sad fact, and that I'd rather it not be the case. People will generally believe what they want to believe, it's very easy to do. It's a lot more difficult, I feel, to believe in something you don't want, or wish, wasn't the case.

Having said this, even if I were agnostic, I do have to say that as far as Christianity and similar goes, that if I believed there might be a god (but didn't know either way), I'd genuinely want absolutely nothing to do with them. Stephen Fry sums it up nicely, along with Richard Dawkins (Ricky Gervais also has good points on the topic). I was raised by an atheist father and a Christian mother. I believe I was around age 8 when I told 'god' I hated him and despised him, after watching the suffering my mother went through for several years, that was completely undeserved. I remember at a christian camp when I was young, having the folk running the camp preach that god was perfect. I questioned how this could be the case, given that god 'murdered so many people with a flood', what was happening to my mother, and the suffering of so many others also. The answer wasn't satisfactory.

I'm afraid I do have beliefs that atheists tend to be more intelligent, and that the more religious you are, the less intelligent you tend to be. I'm genuinely sorry if that hurts anyone, as I know it's not a nice belief. It does not mean I'm correct and could just as easily be an unpleasant aspect to my personality.

There are some interesting points on this thread that have given me pause for thought. The agnostic being more intelligent than atheists is an interesting one for me to ponder. My immediate feeling is they may well have a point here.

To touch on the point that plenty of intelligent people do have faith. I'd quesiton this though, how is their intelligence measured? What was their upbringing? I know scientists whom believe in god, which to me, was unfathomable. Until you learn their upbringing was by heavily religious parents. Hard to shake off early life experiences. I know this won't be the situation in all cases though.

She didn't say agnostics believed in God. She said she believed in the big bang theory rather than any religious explanation at which point you told her she was too uninformed to join in the debate aka a personal attack. Also an irrelevant one as there are plenty of religious people who also believe in the big bang, they just believe God was the driving force behind it.

Apologies @Againstmachine for assuming you are a she if you aren't!

If Christianity is practised properly it doesn't do any of these things.

I hate the attitude of some posters looking down on people and calling them less intelligent for believing in God.
Don't be so ignorant it's okay to disagree.
Having your own opinion doesn't make you right and then wrong.

I was brought up in a very religious household, church twice on a Sunday, no watching TV or going to the shops on a Sunday. (It was quite a few years ago though so more mainstream behaviour than it would be now). I do still have a belief but I'm not quite sure what in. I think one of the problems is that organised religion is responsible for so many awful things. People are flawed and if they can see a way to control others (do what I say or you will be eternally damned) they will take it.

However I look at some of the teachings of Jesus and think that if people lived more according to them the world would be a much better place.

I find the world around us amazing and also the way our bodies work and nature generally. It is difficult to believe that all these things happened by chance.

I suppose there is also a certain element of feeling sad that death is the end. I have lost DP and both my parents over the last three years and I think that maybe thinking there is something else after death is maybe some sort of consolation.

I would love to be able to say there is no higher power but I just can't bring myself to do that. Whether that is as a result of my upbringing I don't know.

No, she said agnostics (i.e. me) believe in God. That’s what she said and that’s what I responded to. She also said it again later on.

@TeaAndToastest

I suspect some atheists decide they don’t believe when they’re a small child and never think about it beyond that, so their conception of God and religion is that of a small child. There is an arrogance and lack of curiosity to it that is deeply depressing

This pretty much describes my atheism. I'd contend that your assertion of a lack of curiosity is wholly misplaced though. It's curiosity that made me question some of the aspects of the Christian stories that were told to me in school. I always questioned why adults were telling me that jesus could perform miracles and return from the dead, when those things are beyond ordinary human beings. It's because of curiosity I didn't just accept them despite it being adults repeating them, and it's because of curiosity I was sceptical enough of them to reserve judgement until I such time I was sure enough that they were just stories, not factual, and that the religious view of life and creation did not adequately explain the universe.

It's because of curiosity that I still ponder these things, it's because of curiosity that I take an interest in the advancement of scientific understanding and knowledge, and it's because of curiosity that I'll still engage with people who believe in religion, gods, and so on, because I want to understand why it is they believe what they do despite there being no evidence to support it.

I'd disagree that it's case of not developing the conception of god and religion beyond that of a small child, rather that there simply is nothing to god and religion that demands people think beyond the level of a small child. If you bring up the contradictory problems belief in deity as a creator poses, they're usually brushed off illogical non-answers which themselves just pose further questions, so it usually comes back to 'it just is' or 'because we can't understand god'. Those 'answers' just don't actually answer anything in any meaningful way, so I think you'd have to be rather uncurious in the first place to be satisfied with them and accept them.

I also refute the accusation of 'arrogance'. That would stand if atheists never questioned anything, never sought answers, or never challenged anything, yet when we do, when it comes to faith, belief, and religion, we are invariably left unsatisfied and the questions we asked are left unresolved, so eventually you get to the point were it's reasonable to conclude they never are going to be resolved, so its reasonable to dismiss the prospect of there actually being anything of substance to deity and religion. It might appear to be 'arrogance' on a surface level, but normally it's a state that comes about due to being fed up of asking questions and never receiving anything satisfactory in response.

No apologies needed.

That wasn’t what that poster said at all, and if your reading comprehension skills are at that low level then I don’t know what to say to you.

That posters argument was that her father was a doctor, had critical thinking skills and was a man of faith. That doesn’t mean she thought his faith, or any other opinion he had, was correct. People can have critical thinking skills and disagree. Having critical thinking skills does not mean arriving at the same conclusions.

Another interesting thought is, that many (though not all) religions tend to have uncannily similar bases. I am genuinely fascinated by cultures' experiences of religions, and their beliefs of what happens after we die. One of interest was a south american tribe, that had only just had contact, the beliefs of these people were very similar to many, though obviously had some differences. The whole living in the sky idea is common. This could be used to argue the possibility of there being a god.

Another poster put it beautifully, about the need of humans to plug the gaps of knowledge. It's interesting what we can come up with. The above could simply also be a result of this, and how humans generally, will tend to plug those gaps.

‘If Christianity is practised properly it doesn't do any of these things.’

aye and there’s the fecking rub. WhatbIS ‘properly ‘ exactly? When you have dozens of variations all preaching their version and screaming that they’re right and YOU’RE wrong, and judging, harming, killing people all the way …

I’m an athiest. I can’t know for a fact that there’s no god (but only in the same way I can’t know for a fact about anything I can’t see, smell, taste etc ) but I do know for a fact that if there is a god they are useless and disgusting.

I particularly like the Quaker version of religion personally