There is no god

[OldKingCole]

Inspired by another thread … I was surprised by the level of atheism professed … as I always though I was in a tiny, tiny minority.
would be interested to see the MN response.

IABU - there is a god
IANBU - there is no god

What sort of unnecessary questions questions are you thinking of? And why aren’t they necessary?

Some of the philosophical 'why do we exist' or 'why do kids get cancer' type of questions. They can be explained by the 'how' (although we don't yet have all the answers, maybe never will) - by physics, abiogenesis, evolution, biochemistry - the processes of nature, with no supernatural forces, no external intelligence or will.

There really doesn't have to be a 'why' - we exist because the 'how' happened.

I don't know how people can put the arguments for God and call them rational or even logical. We now have sociology and psychology and child development and genetic knowledge that answers many of these supposed philosophical questions. The morality argument in particular is so ridiculous, it validates the idea that people who are religious have extremely dubious morality themselves and are selfish.

I think that largely depends on perspective though. The question why? The need to find meaning is extremely powerful in many (including me). some people (like you) though might think it’s pointless.

it’s a bit like the discursive meditation of the west vs the attempts to still the mind of the East (bit of an oversimplification- but..). Neither is wrong, just different courses for different horses.

for me the why is so much more important than the how.

Sorry posted too soon. For me the how is simply a mechanism for achieving the why. But of course there being a why would indicate a directed purpose.,

For me this helps me understand things better, is there a directed purpose for everything? So is there a why? For everything. Why does there need to be a why? If there doesn’t your how? Suffices, if you believe that there is a purpose to this then the why has to come into play. Most people need meaning, therefore need a why?

I Aldo think that trying to use rational or logical thought to understand God is pretty much a modern non-starter.

this is where, allegory,symbolism and ritual come in, it reaches beyond the rational/logical parts of the mind and consciousness

I don’t think that trying to use rational… rather

I don't believe in the God of the Bible or of religions, and I don't think (a la Richard Carrier....one can find his lectures on You Tube) that a man named Jesus probably even existed, but I do believe based on thousands and thousands of reports of near-death experiences and other spiritual experiences people have had that we are all bits and pieces strewn throughout the universe of the intelligent loving everything, experiencing things from every possible perspective. We are That, You are That, and all this is That. I guess one could call That "God" but the term has been so corrupted I can't bring myself to use it. So if someone were to ask me if I believe in God, I'm going to want clarification on what is meant by God.

Most people need meaning, therefore need a why?

Not believing in an external, supernatural 'why' doesn't render one's life devoid of meaning!

So how do you find meaning within a purely mechanistic how? how am I here doesn’t give any meaning that I can see, but then that might be because I’m a why type of person

I'm at a loss how to explain that - how can anyone not find meaning within their life in the natural world?
Although I don't particularly call myself a 'humanist', I suppose the section on humanism in this wiki is more or less what I'd mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaningofflife#20th-centuryphilosophy

'Meaning' is an awfully big concept, isn't it? I don't think it's the same for everyone. When I want meaning, I think of my kids, my cats, the sun through my window - everything that makes me happy to be alive. I don't need anything bigger than that.

But all these things are most likely perceived by you to be bigger than you, that’s all it takes. Questions of why don’t need anything supernatural, just something other, why do these things give you meaning?

But even if you find the natural world gives you meaning that is still a why? Not how. From the wiki page you linked

“Humanism affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity". why does it affirm our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives that aspire to the greater good of humanity? This is a why not a how. You are doing something because you belief in the greater good. A why doesn’t need supernatural involvement, just something bigger than you.

@OMG12 they make me happy, they give me a place in the world, they make sense of things. I'm very glad to have them. I don't worship them though. Not even my cats.

Would you give your life for your child?

So this same god presumably allows people to end up destitute and homeless so that Christians can virtue signal by feeding and having collections for them?

@OMG12 I have three, but yes. They're young adults and I've had almost 55 largely good years so that seems like a fair trade.

So would you give your life for any perdon younger than you?

Person not perdon?😀

As a non believer will I go to hell?

And is God cool with hedging your bets? Is this the true currency of faith. I mean, I'm an atheist, but that sounds a lot like blasphemy to my ear. Don't worry, us heathens will make room for you on the naughty bench.

@Parker231 @BestMammyEver is discussing Pascal’s Wager, after the French mathematician and philosopher Blaise Pascal (of Pascal’s Triangle).

I think any God worth anything will judge us by our actions. Many awful people throughout history and in the present time commit horrible atrocities and put them down to a belief in God. OTOH there are many reasons good people might not believe. Any God worth their salt can surely disentangle this. No personal judgment on @BestMammyEver intended

@OMG12 no, probably not. I do feel very strongly protective of my family, we've all grown together and been through a lot (one of mine is fostered). It's obviously more than just a pragmatic consideration.

If I turn out to have been wrong about the existence of God when I die, I'll stand up and explain everything I've done in life, good and bad. I've done my utmost to be the best human being I can be. Any deity who condemns me simply for not believing will earn my contempt.