Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

Maybe they just assumed they were. I might have done too if there wasn't so much debate about it and argument from bottle feeding women that it was discriminatory if their babies couldn't be fed in them.

She is laughing at women who need support, no two ways about it.

And is also conveniently not replying to other posters calling her out on the Bf topic.

women haven’t BF forever successfully, many women struggled, mostly in silence feeling like shit for decades. It’s been shown that with support at home BF rates and long term success improves. It’s why HVs and other professionals actively encourage male partners to attend BF sessions post birth.

Some women struggle when their partner isn’t around. Some cope just fine, it’s weird to claim these women don’t exist just because you had a different experience

I'm laughing at YOU @CoralreefBex

The way you said about men massaging breasts etc really made me laugh.

In all seriousness there's absolutely nothing wrong with this, I was just imagining it in the feeding room, in view of others, and it made me laugh. Because that's what we were originally discussing.

So the argument now isn’t even that the room is required for a man to FF feed a baby, but actually he’s there to support a BF woman. Be that through support words or massaging her breast?

No, if another woman is also in there he does not need to be there as an additional spare part. I’d have no issue with them checking and him coming in if the room is empty/ leaving when another woman shows up but that doesn’t seem to be the case. And apparently although it’s rude and inconsiderate, it is fine for a man to be sitting there not showing any support and using his phone instead? So ultimately - woman cannot have a private space for breastfeeding as women must budge aside to make space for men - even if they are just using it as somewhere to hang out for a bit?

Hear hear.

Because your H is a decent man. My partner is the same.

As with so many things, just because he can, doesn't mean he should.

They do indeed encourage it. My SiL is a HV. She says that the best way to get buy in from men so they don't abdicate responsibility for large parts of the care of their BF babies is to convince them they have A Big Important Job to do. If they see it in terms of merely supporting the mother they're less on board than if they percieve themselves as 'essential' and 'experts' on the subject. However I don't think there's many people who really think the presence of a man is vital to a woman's ability to BF. Certainly not if his presence would be hindering another woman's ability to do the same.

@roarfeckingroarr @user1483646497 totally agree with your point my DH is the same and he has always waited outside and he is also a very hands on dad but things like bf etc he knows his boundaries. No woman owes anyones husband/partner or whatever just because they to them are awesome the benefit of a doubt.

Some posters have been playing word games

Mother and baby rooms used to exist and unless that exact same room exists but has a new name then its not being accepted by some posters

in our local shopping centre there were definitely a few shops with mother and baby rooms…i don’t remember whether the shopping centre itself had one

when the new toilets were built in the centre they incorporated a ‘family’ room and the individual mother and baby rooms were closed

So to clarify i also remember them 😀

This hits the nail on the head. Everyone shouting it's a parents room, not solely for women, so men are allowed. But because organisations are terrified of not being inclusive they rebrand women only spaces.

No. On account he isn't getting his tits out, so doesn't need privacy 🙄

People are shouting that it is a “parents” room because if there are nappy changing facilities it should be. It’s not Stonewalls idea that changing nappies is not only a women's job. Women have been fighting for years for men to do their share of childcare and unbelievable that some women call themselves feminists while arguing that nappy changing should be done in "women only spaces". It would be a good idea for there to be separate breast feeding areas but generally there aren't and there never have been.

They do indeed encourage it. My SiL is a HV. She says that the best way to get buy in from men so they don't abdicate responsibility for large parts of the care of their BF babies is to convince them they have A Big Important Job to do. If they see it in terms of merely supporting the mother they're less on board than if they percieve themselves as 'essential' and 'experts' on the subject. However I don't think there's many people who really think the presence of a man is vital to a woman's ability to BF. Certainly not if his presence would be hindering another woman's ability to do the same.

Great. Men as experts and essential for breastfeeding. Men mansplaining breast feeding to women. Just brilliant.

Orchid - it's already been pointed out that it's right to ensure that fathers play their fair share in parenting and an unintended consequence of this reduces spaces for women to breastfeed "privately". Stonewall's influence is their stated determination to remove the words woman, pregnant mothers and all sex based language from public life - thus rendering women's needs invisible.
Just like they were in the Victorian times.

Like I said earlier. Dumpster fire. Just understand, women: those are your spaces that men have commandeered. They were ours. Are now not. Get yer tits out at yer peril.

Should women wheesht?

It wasn’t the only changing facility. It wasn’t a changing room, that was next door and empty. My husband often changes our daughter and I completely agree, men should absolutely have access to this. I think it’s appalling when they’re in the women’s toilets like it’s only our job.

Actually if a man was in there feeding his child I would never tell him to leave so I could feed mine. But this wasn’t the case so I stand by my point.

Some shops have introduced unisex changing rooms meaning husbands/parents now feel the need to go in when their wives/daughters do, just in case. So there are multiple women all trying to change, knowing that multiple men are all standing awkwardly inches away on the other side of a flapping curtain. It's a total joke.

See this doesn’t bother me in the slightest. What if the woman wants the opinion of her bloke? She’s hardly going to want to parade out of the changing rooms into the open shop floor in an outfit is she? That’s plain embarrassing. And you have got a curtain.

The shop will no doubt have weighed up whether the embarrassment outlined above would cost them more than the likes of you no longer shopping there due to the possibility of a man being the other side of a curtain and made their decision accordingly. Consumers can take their money elsewhere.

I live in Scotland where a bill has just been passed making it so much easier for any males to get a gender recognition certificate. Getting one of these means we have to stand aside and let men be treated as women leaders on brownie camps with all the access they get, let male teens into the girls PE changing at school etc etc. Force female prisoners share a cell with a penis-owning male (who is statistically more likely to be in jail for sexual offences). So forgive me if I think men being the other side of a curtain in a female changing room is the least of our worries.

So forgive me if I think men being the other side of a curtain in a female changing room is the least of our worries.

Might be* *the least of our worries but doesn't mean we shouldn't strenuously object when women are made to feel uncomfortable in baby feeding rooms by the totally unnecessary presence of men. Also, all the women and girls "accidentally " walked in on by men in e.g. Primark changing rooms , would probably think that men in women's changing rooms is a really big deal.

And it's death by a thousand cuts isn't it. Little bit here, little bit there. Mixed-sex changing rooms no big deal, mixed-sex feeding rooms no big deal, mixed-sex toilets no big deal...
There was even the awful case on here a little while ago where a poor lady had gone to a women-only sexual assault survivors group only to find a man there who 'identified as female'. This is the direction we're heading in if we don't speak up.

Hear hear.👏

*@Blackandwhites
*
See this doesn’t bother me in the slightest. What if the woman wants the opinion of her bloke? She’s hardly going to want to parade out of the changing rooms into the open shop floor in an outfit is she? That’s plain embarrassing. And you have got a curtain.

People do this all the time and have been doing it for years and years, yet you're talking about it like it's a new thing? Where have you been?

Unfortunately this is going to become increasingly common with idiots. Leaving on about genitals don’t matter.

public spaces are becoming increasingly mixed sex to pander to the “it’s how (a man) feels is what matters (screw women).

All of this pronouns, shouts of TERF/transphob, shit science quoting that can be wiped out by a quick google and an ounce of critical thinking, shit “journalism” uninformed crap like Emma Watson trying to slyly income transwomen as women by showing her uneducated stance thinking all witches are women. The Independent and Guardian Newspapers spewing out propaganda worse than any tabloid. Control of language. Is only ever going to empower more and more men to think silencing women is OK.

We need to call this crap out every time we see it.

*bleating on not leaving on