How do you manage differences in parenting at family events?

[Holddear]

After another Christmas with family, I wondered if other people have similar issues and how they manage it.

As back ground info- Im pregnant and have no other children so tend to try and stick out of parenting things because I know that some of the things me and my husband swear we would never do, we will probably end up doing.
I also work in child mental health/ development so have training on some things, and probably more things that I see as predictors of future issues than most. I guess what also plays on mind is that i recently had a close friend who's child had additional needs, that I didn't highlight to the parents (because I assumed they were aware) and they felt a bit hurt when it was later flagged by nursery that I'd not given them a "heads up".

Main issue:
When we spend time with inlaws family, they have a quite a strong discipline approach to children. My brother in law and sister in law have one 3 year old daughter. I see some vulnerabilities in her.

My neice is a bit of a handful at times, but seeing the way they parent is uncomfortable viewing for me at times. It's very shouty (and has been from when she was a toddler) and uses the sort of tone of voice that you'd give if they broke your best China on purpose, but about everything from not eating veg, to not putting shoes on quick enough.

They aren't physically abusive (although had a brief period of slapping when she was a small toddler that seems to have stopped). they do pull by arms roughly to naughty Steps though. Im not concerned niece is in any kind of physical danger

My main approach is to let them get on with it, not add to feeling watched as I'm sure that makes it harder for them. I have at times discretely left the room when it feels a bit too much to go wash up etc, but they often use a sort of group shaming thing that indirectly includes me. Over our early Christmas for example she hadn't taken her shoes off when asked, and neice was very upset walking round the lounge (with shoes now off) and bil was saying looking nobody will even look at you because you're so naughty etc.

We live in a different country to them so we tend to see them a lot over 2 weeks and then not see them again for a few months, so it's easy to avoid

Theres real moments of tenderness in their parenting but it just feels like they have really swallowed the "she has to learn to listen" so can't let any small bit go. Previously they were having difficulties with dressing I said to them about potentially using timer lights, racing dressing, allowing choice which are strategies I teach parents but they said "she just has to learn, not everything can be a game". So I haven't said anything further

On christmas day we had a video messenger call as a whole family and neice wasnt on screen, but sister in law was really shouting in the back ground and then came on screen and said very loudly where neice was on screen "she's being really fucking shit" angrily. I must have looked a bit shocked because MIL spoke to me after wards and said " I don't know what neice was doing but she must have been really naughty'

I've previously spoken to mother in law and we've been able to say that it looks like everyone's really stressed etc, and she seems to agree that sometimes the shouting isn't needed, but also is very much "bil is trying his best, she's just a tricky child"

Do other people just stay out of these situations? I don't feel close enough to bil or sil to say anything, but also don't know if perhaps I'm a bit more sensitive because of my training

I would stay out of it. You’ll never get any thanks and you’ll always be in the wrong.

You just get on with it tbh. You parent your way and they parent theirs.

Living away from each other will help make it easier.

SIL and I parent very differently. Our agreement is that we each parent our own child our own way and the other doesn’t interfere. Also we respect the rules of the other persons home (kids are allowed on the sofa in my house, they’re not in hers. Food only at the dining table in hers, but snacks are allowed at the coffee table in mine).

Kids are used to different people having different rules so it works fine.

You’ve done all you can do - offer alternative strategies - and when you’re all together you can model other strategies or react if you really feel something is out of line. Otherwise you do have to accept that you cannot be an influence because you live far away.

@YetMoreNewBeginnings I feel like that too but I have a very close friend who parents very differently to me and I’ve had to stop having her and her kids round to my house because she constantly tries to enforce the rules of her house at mine. For example I don’t mind the kids playing in the living room, they can turn the couch into a fort and climb all over it as long as I’m not trying to sit on it at the time. df would go bananas if she saw the kids doing something like that at mine because they aren’t allowed to do it at home and then it’s awkward because she expects me to back her up. When we are at hers my kids follow her house rules which is fine and they know the difference.

It took a few discussions with SIL to get to the point we’re at.

I’ve always been of the opinion that children can totally differentiate between rules in one place and in another. Even from very young they’re used to it.

It took saying to SIL that it would be far more confusing for my kids to have rules chop and change in their home than for hers to see different rules in different homes for her to get it though.

Exactly the same in my family. In laws are super strict, do group shaming which feels really bullying, absolutely rigid, parents are always right. The kids are allowed to pile in to the telling off of each other too. But - they love their kids and it's just their way.

I parent totally differently and they think my kids are just naturally very well behaved (which could be true)

We just get on with it and don't interfere with each other

I'll be fascinated to see how the adult relationships pan out though as I've never seen their children have a nice moment together or been with them without someone being hugely told off and shamed.

Thanks. I'm from a culture where its common for families to play an active role with children, and it's a much less leave the parents to it.
It has pros and cons
But its a bit of a relief to feel its less my responsibility

Oh my goodness, you've basically spent 2 weeks 'studying' their parenting a couple of times in that 3 year old's whole life, and yet you've basically pulled them apart.

You're right about one thing...

As back ground info- Im pregnant and have no other children so tend to try and stick out of parenting things because I know that some of the things me and my husband swear we would never do, we will probably end up doing.

You will, yes and let's hope you don't end up reading your inlaws 'report' on your parenting when your kid is 3

Butt out. You've done some studying because of your job. That's totally different to actual parenting, and especially around such a stressful time as Christmas is for most people with actual children.

No doubt that when your turn comes to manage difficult behaviour or do some other parenting task in front of your extended family, they will see something you do that they disagree with too. When that time comes, you will want them to mind their own business, and that’s exactly what you should do now.

We were all perfect parents with perfect behaviour strategies when were were pregnant. Things change.

We are in similar situation to you. The issue is not that its different parenting but that your niece appears to be treated in a way that is borderline abusive. No shoes in the house in one house or snacks in kitchen only are alternative rules. Shouting, grabbing, shaming are a whole different level.

I don't have the answer for you. When nephew was younger, dh and I had a few casual conversations with Sil ans bil about a) whether possibly nephew should be assessed for asd/adhd/spd and b) around practical solutions to him being "naughty" buy it had no effect. Now we are in the awful situation where no one likes the child and both parents are being heavily judged. And I still feel completely helpless.

I think you might find you have more credibility to give your family advice on parenting skills when you have some lived , practical experience yourself. Work is all great in theory, but just wait and see how things actually pan out. The real on the job training starts when this little person appears and may not be what you expect.
Also, 2 weeks over Christmas with family is hardly likely to be representative of the other 50 weeks of the year when things may well be much calmer without the added pressure of an audience when you're trying to deal with something.
My sister and I parent very differently, it took me a while to get used to her "gentle parenting " but I didn't comment (or discreetly leave the room) because it's her way and as you say, there's no lack of love.

I'm an EYFS teacher but how I parent my children isn't the same as how I manage my classroom. Chefs don't produce a fine dining experience at every meal and ballet dancers dance at wedding discos. They don't critique other people's dancing. And say how they will do it better.

One is work and the other is real life

Absolutely none of your business u less they behave to your child like that when he or she is here.

Just because you work in child mental health/child development, whatever that may mean, does not make you an absolute expert. If you are a child and adolescent psychiatrist with full medical training behind you is very different from being a social worker attached to a CAMHS team.

I've no doubt I'll be very different to what I plan with my own!

I think often they do involve us though, for example when she was upset they said Holddear and Holddear don't want to look at you because you are so naughty while she was literally crying sitting on my feet. They also told her that we weren't going to come because she had been bad, and throughout the week she was told we were throwing away presents etc. We are often part of a threat

I come from a culture where there's more of a collective parenting things, so it's common aunties would put kids to bed, take the toilet etc and in big gatherings give parents a rest. Then when I'm at work I'm also responsible for assessing and recommending parenting strategies so I think it's hard to watch some of the strong shouting. I really don't interfere though, other than the dressing strategies which was a low stress conversation which they instigated when the kid was in bed ie. Not while they were struggling to put pyjamas on their kid.

The controversial bit is
As a professional I genuinely believe they are setting her up for longer term issues.
Neice is really sensitive to shame, and a lot of their strategies are based on this eg everyone in the shopping is looking at you being horrible and there's a lots of name calling rather than behaviour based eg. Your stupid rather than that was a stupid thing to do. The tone of voice in the shouting is also incredibly strong and not the usual shouting you hear.
It would totally be my job to notice this if I saw her in my professional world

We see them regularly throughout the year. We saw her for 2 weeks earlier in the month but have seen her multiple times this year. My meaning was that in general rather than spending an odd afternoon with them, where it might be easier to be a bit distant, often we are with them for whole Weekends etc

Look, you can keep adding bits to make them sound worse and worse, but the bottom line is they're not your kids, you're not a parent yet and your job is just your job - it's nothing to do with them.

If you don't like being around them for the relatively tiny amount of time you have been, in the 3 year old's life, then don't be.

But if you choose to be, then leave your work hat at the front door. No-one appreciates being scrutinised and analysed.

You sound quite naive and culturally blind if you're insisting this style of parenting is going to cause her problems in the future.

What you call the 'shaming' technique is a very common parenting style in many cultures around the world.

You can learn a lot from books, but you can't learn everything, especially if you're reading them from inside your little bubble.

OP I completely disagree with posters saying it's not appropriate for you to have concerns.

I had concerns about my in laws parenting well before I had children and my view didn't alter once I had children.

WRT longer term concerns you may well be right. One of our nieces has turned out to be neurodiverse which explains partly why they found her tricky to parent and also has led to sil saying privately to me that she regrets being so tough with her.

What you can do is be a real friend and ally to your niece. I have very close relationships to mine and they come and stay with us a few times a year.

I know it's hard to witness though

Nobody parents perfectly. Is their parenting bad enough that she should be removed from them or are they 'good enough'? I can understand that it's hard to watch them parenting in a way that you consider to be less than optimal but I think you just need to be kind and consistent to your niece yourself and let them get on with it unless there is active harm going on.

I dislike the way that they parent. Shaming is not a parenting tool that should ever be used in my opinion. I also don't like swearing or name calling, anything that belittles a child and affects their self esteem is not OK in my book. If you don't think she is in any danger I'd back off but keep a watchful eye.

@Holddear you're not coming across well here. Unsolicited advice is unhelpful for multiple reasons, one of which is its rude.

• From a professional point of view, you should know not to be as judgemental as you are being
• As long as there is no risk if harm that requires MASH, help is only welcome if it I'd asked for
• you sound FTP naive. You have no real life experience of parenting full time. You will become a better professional once you do.

I work as (secondary school) full time DSL. I also have secondary school children if my own. I see suboptimal parenting all the time; in Primark, in a restaurant, snd occasionally from family members.

I also recognise suboptimal parenting from myself (shock horror). Especially when I reflectively parenting.

You will have times of crap parenting. It's likely that you'll make tons of parenting mistakes, that if you give a second or third child you will learn not to make. That doesn't mean it's helpful to be told that as a FTP when youre doing your best and still learning. People (prob your inlaws) will observe these mistakes you make and know that they can't say anything unsolicited, because unsolicited advise only creates negativity.

In short - kerp your judgemental attitude in check.

OP, it sounds horrible. I would be so uncomfortable being in that situation. You probably have no choice but to hold your tongue. I feel very sorry for the little girl.

I can’t believe some of the comments above, are these posters really OK with a little girl being treated like this? Shamed and bullied.

You sound kind, and while I’m sure you will do things you never thought you would before children, I’m sure you will treat your children with kindness and patience.

I dislike the way DB and his wife parent, both are extremely overweight and lead a very sedentary unhealthy lifestyle and have passed the same issues on to their DC. In my book this is so sad to see however they have chosen to ignore the advice of their doctors and health visitors preferring to think they know best and that there nothing wrong with being fat. I just have to stay out of it but it is very very difficult.

Genuinely haven't been sharing unsolicited advice. I've also gone along with most things when they have said things like we are going to throw out presents

I've never mentioned any of the above. The quietly leaving is something I do rarely because I'm assuming it looks worse? But I tend to do it in situations where I'd think I'd hate an audience for that, or that feeling of people being around makes it worse.

These are my honest thoughts but I completely promise that I'm not going around saying this! Of course not

The replies here that are helpful to me have been the ones that tell me it's similar in their families eg the one that said they have different rules in different house holds, or the ones saying its okay to sit back.

People telling me that I'm being judgemental doesn't really change much.

@Holddear you come across very well. Ignore the aggressive posts from people here. I think you are very thoughtful and caring and it's good that your niece will have you in her life.