How do you manage differences in parenting at family events?

[Holddear]

After another Christmas with family, I wondered if other people have similar issues and how they manage it.

As back ground info- Im pregnant and have no other children so tend to try and stick out of parenting things because I know that some of the things me and my husband swear we would never do, we will probably end up doing.
I also work in child mental health/ development so have training on some things, and probably more things that I see as predictors of future issues than most. I guess what also plays on mind is that i recently had a close friend who's child had additional needs, that I didn't highlight to the parents (because I assumed they were aware) and they felt a bit hurt when it was later flagged by nursery that I'd not given them a "heads up".

Main issue:
When we spend time with inlaws family, they have a quite a strong discipline approach to children. My brother in law and sister in law have one 3 year old daughter. I see some vulnerabilities in her.

My neice is a bit of a handful at times, but seeing the way they parent is uncomfortable viewing for me at times. It's very shouty (and has been from when she was a toddler) and uses the sort of tone of voice that you'd give if they broke your best China on purpose, but about everything from not eating veg, to not putting shoes on quick enough.

They aren't physically abusive (although had a brief period of slapping when she was a small toddler that seems to have stopped). they do pull by arms roughly to naughty Steps though. Im not concerned niece is in any kind of physical danger

My main approach is to let them get on with it, not add to feeling watched as I'm sure that makes it harder for them. I have at times discretely left the room when it feels a bit too much to go wash up etc, but they often use a sort of group shaming thing that indirectly includes me. Over our early Christmas for example she hadn't taken her shoes off when asked, and neice was very upset walking round the lounge (with shoes now off) and bil was saying looking nobody will even look at you because you're so naughty etc.

We live in a different country to them so we tend to see them a lot over 2 weeks and then not see them again for a few months, so it's easy to avoid

Theres real moments of tenderness in their parenting but it just feels like they have really swallowed the "she has to learn to listen" so can't let any small bit go. Previously they were having difficulties with dressing I said to them about potentially using timer lights, racing dressing, allowing choice which are strategies I teach parents but they said "she just has to learn, not everything can be a game". So I haven't said anything further

On christmas day we had a video messenger call as a whole family and neice wasnt on screen, but sister in law was really shouting in the back ground and then came on screen and said very loudly where neice was on screen "she's being really fucking shit" angrily. I must have looked a bit shocked because MIL spoke to me after wards and said " I don't know what neice was doing but she must have been really naughty'

I've previously spoken to mother in law and we've been able to say that it looks like everyone's really stressed etc, and she seems to agree that sometimes the shouting isn't needed, but also is very much "bil is trying his best, she's just a tricky child"

Do other people just stay out of these situations? I don't feel close enough to bil or sil to say anything, but also don't know if perhaps I'm a bit more sensitive because of my training

I would just stay out of it tbh. I don't think there is a way of addressing it without causing huge issues.

SIL parents very differently to me. She is very strict, uses the naughty step etc. I'm pretty chill with mine. There is no noticeable difference in the behaviour of our children. Hers definitely aren't better behaved for being dragged off to the step for ever minor misdemeanor.

So the slaps I saw was slap on hands when she was touching something she shouldn't. It wasnt an immediate dangerous thing like touching a hot thing, but something mechanical which would be dangerous if it has been on

The pulling by arms is the dragging to her room/naughty step, and sometimes roughly placing her on the step by / that thing people do when they slightly drop kids into the car

I've seen that a few times by parents in public when parents are wrangeling kids so while it's something I'm hoping to avoid, it doesn't seem that unusual uk wise?

I have no idea what your second and third paragraphs mean except for the bit about dragging by the arm which I think is inappropriate.

Would you mind explaining your comment about something not seeming unusual UK wise?

Our children, adults now, were brought up in the UK by English parents, albeit my antecedents are Continental.

It is not usual in the UK to hit or slap children, nor to drag them. However, many UK parents have high expectations in relation to: courtesy, kindness, table manners, following instructions. Ours spent 2/3 minutes on the naughty step for being naughty as was the norm at the time. They were shouted at occasionally, they were told off when they played up at the table - usually in front of MIL - because they knew which buttons to press. Their cousins from abroad who had zero boundaries and were never reprimanded were rude, bad mannered and thought nothing of pulling up the plants at centre parks and throwing them at people in the pool. Their mother when found by the lifeguard just looked non plussed and quietly told them not to do it in a gentle parenting sort of way. Mine would have been lifted off the slide, carried screaming out of the pool and would have had treats withdrawn for three days before the park staff even noticed. Hence they grew knowing what good behaviour was.

Everyone parents differently but all children need clear boundaries in my opinion. Often children's behaviour when with relatives appears specially curated to wind up their parents.

I wish you well with your parenting op and hope you have a perfectly parented and perfectly behaved child. I suspect you are projecting a little because your role brings you into contact with children who are not necessarily always well parented and this brings a raft of judgement.

I've seen that a few times by parents in public when parents are wrangeling kids so while it's something I'm hoping to avoid, it doesn't seem that unusual uk wise?
Find me a parent who has gone through the toddler years without wrangling a child around and I'll say you've found a liar.
For mine it was car seats and I could have done with another 8 arms when they went through a phase of refusing the seat.
Equally, as a parent you'll sometimes have a moment where the decision needs to be made it's hometime and DC is not happy about it. Most people I've known have carried their toddler having a tantrum at some point.

I'd be more concerned if a child didn't try to push boundaries and have tantrums as a young child as it's a developmentally appropriate stage. What matters is how the parents respond most of the time. Different parents will hold the boundaries in different ways (eg. Calmly holding a boundary with natural/logical consequences or naughty step/time out).

Pulling/dragging/hitting children is not the norm in my circles and I doubt it's the norm in general to be honest, but if you think you're going to avoid having to wrangle a wilful child then you're a bit naive in my opinion.

Haha @LolaSmiles that brought back a memory of getting ds into his buggy at about two when he'd had three warnings at the park and didn't want to go. It was a question of catching him, plonking him in and pretty much resting my knee at his centre to get him clipped into the straps. Followed by inconsolable wailing. If I hadn't done that, we'd have been locked in at dark fall.

That isn't the same as screaming at a 3 year old child that no one can look at her because she's so naughty after she didn't put her shoes on quickly enough. And it's not the same as slapping her on the hands.

DS was quite headstrong and challenging at home and needed firm boundaries. A very experienced teacher, having told me how well behaved he was at school and hearing my surprise, told me that she worried about the children who misbehaved at school and whose parents expressed surprise. Something about the secure child knowing they could misbehave at home without fear.

prista
If that was to my example then I know it's not the same as the treatment of the poor girl in the OP.
I was replying to the idea that the OP thinks she'll avoid wrangling a child because she's seen other parents doing it.

She's right, in my opinion, that the way her niece is being treated is unkind, but she does also sound a bit naive if she thinks she's going to avoid wrangling a child at some point. All parents do, even if we differ on how we discipline.

I think that was my point though, was thats why i dont think its a refer to child protection issue or that she is at physical risk as suggested by othersI didnt think that that the handling of pulling by arms to naughty steps, forcefully put on naughty steps, or into car seats is particularly worthy child protection in the uk. Some countries dont allow slapping/ spanking for exampleIs slapping hands incredibly uncommon? It wasnt unusual when i was a teen in the uk, but times might have changed

Im not assuming all parents in any culture are the same, im not sure why you feel the need to tell me that you met poorly behaved European children. There is no country that's solved the problem of being a perfect parent!

I fully accepted that every parent has days where they dont parent how they thought they would, where sometimes its your kid on the supermarket floor or your kid thats hit another kid. In fact i have been that caregiver when my younger sibling had to be lifted off the floor and starfished so couldnt be put in a car seat. I more meant i dont plan on pulling by the arms having seen damaged caused from it ( but accept that there will be circumstances where i will), but didnt think that this would be classed as abusive

Is that completely not true? Would those situations be a child protection referral as the previous person said?

Thank you for responding op. I am none the wiser about what you are saying.

It sounds emotionally abusive to me. I'm sorry the poor girl ais lumped with these parents and that you have to listen to that. I'm not sure but I woild call them out and say in your professional capacity you feel they are doing things wrong. Someone has to advocate for that poor little girl.